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darmody

Tyrion's Loyalty

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Posted (edited)

Varys probably won't sway Tyrion. But I do see him switching sides eventually, because the show will want to tie the three Lannister siblings in one storyline. We know Tyrion retains sympathy for Cersei. Otherwise he wouldn't have foolishly trusted her last season. He regretted his house's losses on the Field of Fire II. He worries about his unborn niece or nephew. And so on. 

I wonder why it is they made Varys wander first, except that he is a snake. Because Tyrion had a preexisting relationship with Jon. Jon learned how to carry being a bastard and partly how to lead from Tyrion. (Know your men; don't throw your superiority in their faces; etc.) Tyrion never developed that much of a relationship with Danny. Or rather the kind of relationship the show now pretends they have. Varys knew Rhaegar and Ned, of course. But neither were Jon. 

The Sansa part is awkward. As is the whole Lannister-Stark thing. But if Sansa is up to collaborating, Tyrion might be too. 

Edited by darmody

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I think that Varys is looking at  Jon as the best choice for the Realm, he is the only one out of the candidates for the throne who shows he has not got selfish ambitions and will put the people first, which is what Varys claims is right, so in this sense it is logical that Varys would see Jon as the best leader out of them all.

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The conversation Cersei and Tyrion had after the display in the dragonpit - was there more to that? I get the feeling they cut away from it much like they did the convo he had with Bran before the Long Night.

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Cersei knows that it was Olenna who murdered Joffrey so I'm wondering if that had any significance to the conversation between Cersei and Tyrion.

If it came down to it I'm sure Tyrion would put his family, House Lannister first - maybe if he betrays Dany (by getting on board with Varys) it's his attempt to finally make Cersei accept him. Regardless of how badly he was treated in the past who wouldn't take an opportunity to make things right with their family? It wouldn't surprise me, It's either that or its gone so far beyond making amendments that he's fully dedicated to Dany.

The Sansa thing is a mystery at the moment as she could be acting this way due to a number of different reasons.

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1 hour ago, LearnToBeNoOne said:

Cersei knows that it was Olenna who murdered Joffrey so I'm wondering if that had any significance to the conversation between Cersei and Tyrion.

If it came down to it I'm sure Tyrion would put his family, House Lannister first - maybe if he betrays Dany (by getting on board with Varys) it's his attempt to finally make Cersei accept him. Regardless of how badly he was treated in the past who wouldn't take an opportunity to make things right with their family? It wouldn't surprise me, It's either that or its gone so far beyond making amendments that he's fully dedicated to Dany.

The Sansa thing is a mystery at the moment as she could be acting this way due to a number of different reasons.

Tyrion should know by now, that Cersei will NEVER accept him. She tried to kill him how many times and just recently sent Bronn to kill him and Jaime. 

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9 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Tyrion should know by now, that Cersei will NEVER accept him. She tried to kill him how many times and just recently sent Bronn to kill him and Jaime. 

The GGRM Tyrion would, he's intelligent and moves with logic.

I wouldn't be surprised if D&D's Tyrion however didn't.

Jaime said ''I did everything for my family'' so hearing that may have convinced him to definitely go through with whatever plan he had with Cersei (if it exists). He's also aware of Sansa's opinions on Dany (as far as he's been made to believe) so believes this would also secure a future with Sansa for him.

We've seen how Tyrion has been acting in recent episodes and what he's become so this is assuming he does betray what the possible justifications could be.

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Not sure about Cersei... she sends Bronn to kill her brothers yet could quite easily have picked Tyrion off at the end of the last episode... she has had countless times to kill him up close and decided against it... 

Same could be said for Jaime... she could have had him killed when he was walking away by Gregor... yet chose to kill him with a 50/50 chance Bronn.

Makes no sense to me....

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1 minute ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

Makes no sense to me....

A sentence that perfectly sums up this season.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

A sentence that perfectly sums up this season.

I have just convinced myself for the sake of it making some sense that she likes to play with her food.

Or that Lena really wants Jerome to die off and sent him on a suicide mission.

Speaking of which don't get me started on the destruction of Bronns character, how he treated the Lannister brothers was very out of character.

Edited by StoneColdJorahMormont

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Tyrion is already doubting and Varys has picked up on his doubts and is playing them like a piano. 

Tyrion can be absolutely ruthless when he needs to be. If he were 100% convinced of    the wisdom of Dany ruling, he’d have told Varys to screw off the minute it was even mentioned. 

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1 hour ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

Not sure about Cersei... she sends Bronn to kill her brothers yet could quite easily have picked Tyrion off at the end of the last episode... she has had countless times to kill him up close and decided against it... 

Same could be said for Jaime... she could have had him killed when he was walking away by Gregor... yet chose to kill him with a 50/50 chance Bronn.

Makes no sense to me....

Yet we don't see Cersei giving the order, it's Qyburn. But I don't think there's anything behind it. Unless Euron and Qyburn have some kind of deal. Why though.

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6 hours ago, Deminelle said:

Yet we don't see Cersei giving the order, it's Qyburn. But I don't think there's anything behind it. Unless Euron and Qyburn have some kind of deal. Why though.

This is very true, but would be a bold move on his part... unless he has plans further than being a hand of the queen, which I doubt as he just wants funded and given approval for his wacky experiments, but you never know maybe he and Euron have some plans for the dead parts.. seems a bit late in the show to be going off storyline with anything other than Cersei vs Dany/Join though

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20 hours ago, Deminelle said:

Yet we don't see Cersei giving the order, it's Qyburn. But I don't think there's anything behind it. Unless Euron and Qyburn have some kind of deal. Why though.

Thats because the actors that play Cersei and Bronn don't get along and don't do scenes together.

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Posted (edited)

I always thought Tyrion always wanted Sansa and thinks this could win her. Falling for Sans a Finger little game. My concern for Sansa was Brand expression when looks at her sometimes. Wonder if Ary a kills Sans a for betraying family.

Edited by Skeletor

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14 minutes ago, Skeletor said:

I always thought Tyrion always wanted Sansa and thinks this could win her. Falling for Sans a Finger little game. My concern for Sansa was Brand expression when looks at her sometimes. Wonder if Ary a kills Sans a for betraying family.

Tyrion didn't want Sansa at first because he was in love with Shae. But we've been shown he thinks about her and is still interested in maintaining a relationship despite the awkwardness of their situation. 

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On 5/11/2019 at 3:58 PM, Deminelle said:

Yet we don't see Cersei giving the order, it's Qyburn. But I don't think there's anything behind it. Unless Euron and Qyburn have some kind of deal. Why though.

 

3 hours ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Thats because the actors that play Cersei and Bronn don't get along and don't do scenes together.

The camera trickery needed to shoot a scene without both actors physically present on set at the same time? Trivial. Cersei may well have been out of the loop when Qyburn dropped in on Bronn with a chest of gold (which we did not see) and the crossbow (which we did).

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1 hour ago, Gendelsdottir said:

 

The camera trickery needed to shoot a scene without both actors physically present on set at the same time? Trivial. Cersei may well have been out of the loop when Qyburn dropped in on Bronn with a chest of gold (which we did not see) and the crossbow (which we did).

I'm a bit suspicious about the feud between the actors irl. It could as well be distraction, I've said before.

True or not, the things we don't see offer more plot options.

If Cersei doesn't know about this, who's Qyburn with? His words "poetic justice" ring in my mind. Of course, we immediately connect it with Tyrion shooting his father with a crossbow. There is Euron shooting dragons with a bigger bow, too.

We've seen looks exchanged between Euron and Qyburn. Qypes may have played Cersei and has been cunning with Euron all along.

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7 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

We've seen looks exchanged between Euron and Qyburn. Qypes may have played Cersei and has been cunning with Euron all along.

Not ruled out! Qyburn, for all we know, has been having long heart-to-heart sessions with Gregor as well. :)

I kid, I kid... Most of me thinks that what we see is all there is (Occam's Razor). But as you say, there may be things not explicitly shown which are pivotal to the ending. I hope not; that would feel like cheating.

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Posted (edited)

If qyburn were dead who controls the mountain or in  brutal shocker mountain kills cersei. Because it's a auburn cammand.

Edited by Skeletor

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12 hours ago, darmody said:

Tyrion didn't want Sansa at first because he was in love with Shae. But we've been shown he thinks about her and is still interested in maintaining a relationship despite the awkwardness of their situation. 

True.  He at least has a good deal of respect for her, if nothing else.

Right now, though, I think that Tyrion has a crush on Dany.  This is partly what keeps him loyal.  It also clouds his judgement at times.

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