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Filthymouf

Jon and Ghost (why he didn’t say goodbye)

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I see a lot of people asking this question. I have been a follower of this forum for a while but had to sign up just to make this point lol...

I believe the reason he did not say goodbye to ghost is because he is no longer bonded to him.

It’s been like this ever since he bonded with the dragon instead. he’s a Targaryen now and no longer has a bond to ghost. It makes perfect sense to me, although it’s sad...

 

Sorry if someone already pointed this out or if I’m totally wrong but that was my take on it... thoughts?

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1 hour ago, Filthymouf said:

I see a lot of people asking this question. I have been a follower of this forum for a while but had to sign up just to make this point lol...

I believe the reason he did not say goodbye to ghost is because he is no longer bonded to him.

It’s been like this ever since he bonded with the dragon instead. he’s a Targaryen now and no longer has a bond to ghost. It makes perfect sense to me, although it’s sad...

 

Sorry if someone already pointed this out or if I’m totally wrong but that was my take on it... thoughts?

It's much simpler than that, David Nutter the GoT series director said: “Since the direwolves are kind of CG creations, we felt it best to keep it as simple as possible,” said Nutter. Basically telling us they were being tight and didn't want to spend the money to film that scene.

He then went onto say “And I think that it played out much more powerfully that way.” Powerfully ridiculous, it's not a situation where they can get away with playing the it's too hard to say goodbye card.

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2 hours ago, Filthymouf said:

I see a lot of people asking this question. I have been a follower of this forum for a while but had to sign up just to make this point lol...

I believe the reason he did not say goodbye to ghost is because he is no longer bonded to him.

It’s been like this ever since he bonded with the dragon instead. he’s a Targaryen now and no longer has a bond to ghost. It makes perfect sense to me, although it’s sad...

 

Sorry if someone already pointed this out or if I’m totally wrong but that was my take on it... thoughts?

As LearnToBeNoOne said, it was simply budget cuts, confirmed by the director of that episode David Nutter. I wish there was deeper meanings to scenes in the show this season. But most actions seem to be due to budget cuts (in favor of other things like Dragons) or tripping over themselves to finish the story as fast as possible.

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Ok I mean I have heard of that but I’m more interested in how they’re telling the story. I’ll re phrase

Does anybody think that Jon not saying goodbye to ghost can be justified by the writers (Once it was already decided it’s too expensive to hug him) by them implying that he’s no longer bonded to it because he bonded with a dragon instead?

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Filthymouf said:

Ok I mean I have heard of that but I’m more interested in how they’re telling the story. I’ll re phrase

Does anybody think that Jon not saying goodbye to ghost can be justified by the writers (Once it was already decided it’s too expensive to hug him) by them implying that he’s no longer bonded to it because he bonded with a dragon instead?

In a word - no. 

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4 minutes ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

In a word - no. 

Haha! To be honest I thought it was a good explanation. It was the first thing that came to me when they looked at each other.

 

Ghost was almost scared to go near him and Jon kinda looked like he knew it was a shame but that he just wasn’t connected to him anymore

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Posted (edited)

I looked up the cost of CGI and it's supposed to be around $80K - 100K per 'shot' where 10 minutes of CGI would be about $800K, so a 1 minute scene with Jon and Ghost might have cost around $100K, let's be generous and say $200K.  So, in a show where each episode is $15 million...the idea they didn't have this little amount of money is not believable.

Edited by Cas Stark

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Sure the writers can justify it that way. Doesn't mean it makes sense. Honestly the writers had Jon stop interacting with Ghost, long before he rode a dragon. Plus Jon never bonded with Rhaegal did he? Jon just rode him twice. Dragons don't appear to bond with their rider the same way as they do in the books, unless you're Dany and Drogon.

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22 minutes ago, Filthymouf said:

Ok I mean I have heard of that but I’m more interested in how they’re telling the story. I’ll re phrase

Does anybody think that Jon not saying goodbye to ghost can be justified by the writers (Once it was already decided it’s too expensive to hug him) by them implying that he’s no longer bonded to it because he bonded with a dragon instead?

 

 

No because we know the reality of the scene, the director made it clear. It's related to budget cuts so even though it's not what you want to hear, there's really nothing more to it as with anything in this season - which is a shame. Like btfu806 said it would have been nice to find a meaning behind it but imo the 'whole deeper meaning' thing is non existent in this season.

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1 hour ago, LearnToBeNoOne said:

No because we know the reality of the scene, the director made it clear. It's related to budget cuts so even though it's not what you want to hear, there's really nothing more to it as with anything in this season - which is a shame. Like btfu806 said it would have been nice to find a meaning behind it but imo the 'whole deeper meaning' thing is non existent in this season.

There were other ways they could've handled it. For pete's sake - a close up of Jon's face while hugging the neck of a white dog would've been better than what we got in the scene. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

I looked up the cost of CGI and it's supposed to be around $80K - 100K per 'shot' where 10 minutes of CGI would be about $800K, so a 1 minute scene with Jon and Ghost might have cost around $100K, let's be generous and say $200K.  So, in a show where each episode is $15 million...the idea they didn't have this little amount of money is not believable.

Yea I mean they haven’t directly said ‘he didn’t say goodbye because it was too expensive’ I think a lot of people have justified it with that because it feeds into there overall disappointment of how the season has been written.

 

if they could afford big scenes with it in season 1 then surely years later the budget is even bigger and as mentioned above, an extra 200k, (whilst still being a lot of money) is nothing when you imagine how much they usually spend. 

 

Plus as someone else else mentioned they could’ve still achieved it cheaper without CGI.

 

Still my main point is, wether or not it was decided years ago that the show weren’t focusing on the wolves, it still makes perfect sense to me that ghost and Jon have drifted apart

Edited by Filthymouf

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14 minutes ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

There were other ways they could've handled it. For pete's sake - a close up of Jon's face while hugging the neck of a white dog would've been better than what we got in the scene. 

It's not like they did it to try and make Jon look tough either - seriously due to budget? Does it get more pathetic than that.

The viewers have invested so many years but no let's act like Ghost is irrelevant (although he's been there since the beginning) and direwolves don't represent House Stark.

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6 hours ago, LearnToBeNoOne said:

It's not like they did it to try and make Jon look tough either - seriously due to budget? Does it get more pathetic than that.

The viewers have invested so many years but no let's act like Ghost is irrelevant (although he's been there since the beginning) and direwolves don't represent House Stark.

All book readers still remember Jon's last thought while he was dying in the last book was Ghost. I still cannot believe he let Ghost go. 

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7 hours ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

There were other ways they could've handled it. For pete's sake - a close up of Jon's face while hugging the neck of a white dog would've been better than what we got in the scene. 

No mistake in the history of GOT mistakes has been so outrageous as bringing Ghost back, letting him run into the battle in the lead wave and then come back bloodied and with a chunk of his EAR missing, and then having Jon handwave him off on his way while he whines sadly. 

W.T.F. 

Why even bother? 

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9 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I looked up the cost of CGI and it's supposed to be around $80K - 100K per 'shot' where 10 minutes of CGI would be about $800K, so a 1 minute scene with Jon and Ghost might have cost around $100K, let's be generous and say $200K.  So, in a show where each episode is $15 million...the idea they didn't have this little amount of money is not believable.

Also, HBO pretty much gave them a blank check this season.  So, they just didn't want to do it, and the worst part is they thought no one would care.

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I sincerely think they only remembered him when they got to episode 4. And then they went "oh crap, just paste him a few seconds in every episode. Nobody will notice that an actor isn't talking to him and let him run off into the darkness, perfect budget cut. Kit, Kit, before we leave the Winterfel set, just say a line to send him off so we're rid of him!"

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9 minutes ago, SunSpearViper said:

Also, HBO pretty much gave them a blank check this season.  So, they just didn't want to do it, and the worst part is they thought no one would care.

Exactly.  My own very jaded opinion is this was a fuck you to the fans that have been meming and giffing stuff about where is Ghost for years.  But, it most certainly wasn't anything about their budget, that's a lie and a bad one at that.

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1 hour ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

No mistake in the history of GOT mistakes has been so outrageous as bringing Ghost back, letting him run into the battle in the lead wave and then come back bloodied and with a chunk of his EAR missing, and then having Jon handwave him off on his way while he whines sadly. 

W.T.F. 

Why even bother? 

This.  They could have done nothing.  Cut the scene with Jon asking Tormund to take Ghost. And cut the scene with Jon and Ghost staring at each other.  Done.  As far as anyone knows, Ghost is with Jon in KL.  By the time anyone notices the show is over and lights are off.  

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14 hours ago, Filthymouf said:

I see a lot of people asking this question. I have been a follower of this forum for a while but had to sign up just to make this point lol...

I believe the reason he did not say goodbye to ghost is because he is no longer bonded to him.

It’s been like this ever since he bonded with the dragon instead. he’s a Targaryen now and no longer has a bond to ghost. It makes perfect sense to me, although it’s sad...

 

Sorry if someone already pointed this out or if I’m totally wrong but that was my take on it... thoughts?

He didn't say goodby because GCI or using a trained dog of a sufficient size are expensive.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, madhikun said:

All book readers still remember Jon's last thought while he was dying in the last book was Ghost. I still cannot believe he let Ghost go. 

What's frustrating is their excuse relating to costs, as far as I know HBO didn't have them on a tight budget.

I'm sure they knew the book readers would have picked it apart but they could always use the excuse that series naturally vary from the books they're based on - although the ridiculous of the show can't be justified, there's no excuse.

However as well as underestimating book readers they also underestimated viewers. They underestimated viewers based on the assumption that they haven't read the books so would accept it for what it is without questioning the bad writing and plot holes. Everybody had high expectations from the final season from hardcore fans to casual watchers and they didn't take this into account.

Yet D&D's lack of care and laziness is pretty obvious, they haven't given GRRM's work the respect it deserves and that shows in the writing.

Edited by LearnToBeNoOne

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