Chris is my name Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Assuming that we don't get any more answers and that the WW plot is over (and also putting aside all of the other rather ridiculous plotting this season), if this is how things are left, very little of what has happened makes any sense at all. Do we have answers to any of these questions: The Wall appeared to be working; what was the basis of the notion that the 'dead were coming'? Sure,WW were visible enough to drive wildlings south, but what reason was there to assume (enough to drive the plots from season 5 onward) that the wall would suddenly fail? The show posits that the NK just wanted to kill the 3ER; they also state that the NK is thousands of years old and that there have been countless 3ERs. . .thousands of years of failure and what suddenly breaks the pattern is the incompetence of Bran, Jojen, & Co.? The NK clearly had no plan or ability to reach south of the wall; it took the terrible idea of bringing a dragon up there for him to even get the tools to succeed. How was he going to get south to begin with? If the 3ER knows he is the target, why endanger everyone by going south of the wall at all? For the NK/WW: Is the 3ER is the target or they are WMDs to kill all of humanity; which is it? I could go on, but it really undermines the basic logic of much of the show (which unfortunately almost goes without saying these days.) Unless something is revealed in the final 2 hours they have left, I am struggling to see why any of this story even happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 8 hours ago, Chris is my name said: I could go on, but it really undermines the basic logic of much of the show (which unfortunately almost goes without saying these days.) Unless something is revealed in the final 2 hours they have left, I am struggling to see why any of this story even happened. Struggle no more, I have the answer.... or rather, David Benioff has: ”creatively it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen”. I don't think we’re going to get anything else on the WWs, btw, and I’ve been told by some posters here that surely there will be an explanation/reveal/twist, because even D&D can’t be that terrible. Sweet summer children... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of little moment Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 On 5/10/2019 at 4:30 PM, Chris is my name said: The show posits that the NK just wanted to kill the 3ER On 5/10/2019 at 4:30 PM, Chris is my name said: For the NK/WW: Is the 3ER is the target or they are WMDs to kill all of humanity; which is it? I think it's been said explicitly that the Night King wanted to end all life, not only the 3ER. The 3ER was a "main target" as he is the "memory of the world". But the WW wouldn't have stopped at Winterfell according to this statement. Only two episodes left and considering the shows history i agree that it's unlikely that there will be any more answers - especially not for those logical issues (most of them are what they are i assume). On 5/10/2019 at 4:30 PM, Chris is my name said: I am struggling to see why any of this story even happened. The WW weakened Daenerys' army so she couldn't take the throne "easily". Also they forced even enemies (except Cersei) to work together so i guess that's basically why this happened (from a storytellers perspective). Logic just came short because of entertainment purposes and simplification/shortening. Overall it will probably be more coherent and in-depth in the books but that remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 Well I know that in the books the dragons would refuse to go North of the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris is my name Posted May 11, 2019 Author Share Posted May 11, 2019 3 hours ago, of little moment said: The WW weakened Daenerys' army so she couldn't take the throne "easily". Also they forced even enemies (except Cersei) to work together so i guess that's basically why this happened (from a storytellers perspective). That is certainly the result, but these things will never work if the machinations of the storyteller are so obviously apparent. If they were worried about a military mismatch, it would have been much more in keeping with the show's original premise to have one (or several) of her newly allied lords betray her, or show her unable to control the Dothraki from plundering, etc. There were so many better ways to approach this problem, but, alas, I know I am preaching to the choir. 3 hours ago, of little moment said: Overall it will probably be more coherent and in-depth in the books but that remains to be seen. At this point in the books, it is difficult to tell where the story involving the dead is even headed. I don't know if there is a ton of evidence to suggest that breaking through the Wall is even one of their objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of little moment Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 10 hours ago, Chris is my name said: these things will never work if the machinations of the storyteller are so obviously apparent I agree and because of that i don't see how there could be any solution for certain issues; even if there will be some final reveal about the WW or any other major twist. I don't want to talk anybody out of trying to make sense of it, but personally i just think it's futile (unless you're enjoying thinking it through). Since season one there have been those parts of the show which were in there because of popularity, entertainment, audience rating, etcetera (Bronn returning f.e.). Those aspects didn't affect the coherence like they do now, but in general "making sense" and subtlety seemed lesser of concern the more the show progressed. Supposedly the showrunners wanted to finish the show after seven seasons (but HBO wanted at least eight) so i guess the narration would have been even more compressed/simplified. Like kissdbyfire said, that seems to be all behind it. Wherever the story of the WW in the books is headed, i think it will at least be more in line with the rest of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMudd Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 On 5/11/2019 at 8:46 PM, of little moment said: The WW weakened Daenerys' army so she couldn't take the throne "easily". Laughs in episode 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaßvogel Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 On 5/11/2019 at 2:53 PM, bloodsteel bitterraven said: Well I know that in the books the dragons would refuse to go North of the Wall. Could they cross the plane of the wall itself, or did they just immediately veer back? It's all a bit fuzzy to me. I wonder if they don't cross because someone knows that they're the only thing that can bring down the wall and Brandon The Builder built that aspect of the wall's magic too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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