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Watch, Watched, Watching: Getting Sneaky


RedEyedGhost

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5 minutes ago, Astromech said:

I equate the show forums to the old Monday morning water cooler discussions. Some people may still watch the series just so they can participate in the discussion afterward.

I need closure. I'm no longer confident GRRM will finish the books, so I'm settling for fan fiction.

This is the first year I’ve had a friend watching too. We don’t live close to each other so we’ve spent the season live reacting via messenger with each other. Largely hated this season but wouldnt stop watching now because i have so much fun reacting with my friend. Plus, its almost over anyway, might as well stick it out

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1 hour ago, Astromech said:

I need closure. I'm no longer confident GRRM will finish the books, so I'm settling for fan fiction.

It’s not exactly fan fiction though is it?  Martin famously had that meeting where he told Weiss and Benioff how it was going to end.

So I’m watching it partly as a tv show, which I enjoy for the most part (but also think a lot of the writing and decision making is stupid), and partly to see the resolutions of the various plot points, which is going to be more or less similar to what was planned for the books.  Most of the time it’s frustrating because I can kind of see how something might’ve worked out that way but would’ve had a lot more subtlety and nuance in the book.  Other times the characterisation in the show just doesn’t support the arc.

Spoiler

One point I was happy with was Arya walking away from her revenge.  That works and was satisfying.

It is still cool to see people getting stabbed and dragons burning stuff up though.  I’m unaware of any other show that does that with quite as much relish.

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12 hours ago, briantw said:

to see how it all ends

I’ve been wondering for a while now if D&D decided to change the ending. The sloppy writing indicates that they don’t really have a clear vision which could mean they’ve deviated from what GRRM told them.

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3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’ve been wondering for a while now if D&D decided to change the ending. The sloppy writing indicates that they don’t really have a clear vision which could mean they’ve deviated from what GRRM told them.

My feeling is that the sloppy writing means that the ending IS in fact the same. GRRM has given them an outline of what is supposed to happen, but D&D haven't been able to fit that into the episode structure they have created. 

I'm almost certain most of the main beats of the show will be broadly followed by the books in some form or another. The books will hopefully do a better job of it however.

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22 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

My feeling is that the sloppy writing means that the ending IS in fact the same. GRRM has given them an outline of what is supposed to happen, but D&D haven't been able to fit that into the episode structure they have created. 

I'm almost certain most of the main beats of the show will be broadly followed by the books in some form or another. The books will hopefully do a better job of it however.

Given the quality of the last two books, I wouldn’t put too much of my faith in that.

I know GRRM gave them an outline of what is supposed to happen, but within that there is a lot to play with, and that doesn’t mean they can’t make radical changes to individual character arcs. I think he told them that in the end the Iron Throne gets destroyed, but they can choose how it gets destroyed.

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2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Given the quality of the last two books, I wouldn’t put too much of my faith in that.

I know GRRM gave them an outline of what is supposed to happen, but within that there is a lot to play with, and that doesn’t mean they can’t make radical changes to individual character arcs. I think he told them that in the end the Iron Throne gets destroyed, but they can choose how it gets destroyed.

They could do, but I really don't think they will. What I get from watching the show is that they seem to be constrained by hitting plot points, every scene seems to be a way of getting character from A to B and ticking things off. That to me is because they have an outline and are terrified of moving outside of it. 

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26 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

They could do, but I really don't think they will. What I get from watching the show is that they seem to be constrained by hitting plot points, every scene seems to be a way of getting character from A to B and ticking things off. That to me is because they have an outline and are terrified of moving outside of it. 

Perhaps I’m misremembering, but didn’t D&D have a bit of a falling out with GRRM?

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Finished S3 of Sneaky Pete. It was alright. Got a bit convoluted at times with too many cons and storylines all going on at once. I did like the new character of Lizzie. The actress really steals the scene when she’s on screen. 

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So I watched the Chinese movie Wandering Earth.

I thought it was fun to watch, its a Sci-Fi / Dystopian / Endtimes adventure type movie where the heroes are racing to save life on Earth. It requires a little suspension of reality to go along with but this is a forum off a fantasy genre book/show series so it might be fun for some on here.

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5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’ve been wondering for a while now if D&D decided to change the ending. The sloppy writing indicates that they don’t really have a clear vision which could mean they’ve deviated from what GRRM told them.

I think they've changed a great many things (like making Euron a fucking punk), but part of the fun is going to be trying to puzzle out where the books are going based on the story beats the show hits and also attempting to figure out which beats are true to the books and which were changed.  

I'll put my example in spoilers, as I am not sure on the policy for show and potential book spoilers based on the show here.

Spoiler

I expect the war with the Others to go very differently in the books, as I don't think there will be a Night King leader character and that Euron will take on much of that role and be the one to steal a dragon and take down the Wall, possibly with that horn that Sam has with him in Oldtown.  But even though I expect it to go differently, I think the seeds of book plot points are there for sure.  

And that, to me, is what is still enjoyable about the show, along with the absurd production values (say what you want about the plot, but the show still looks incredible).  The writing is an absolute mess at this point, and actions no longer have logical consequences.  Pretty much everything that happens happens because it's where they need the story to go rather than being a natural result of character actions, which leads to a very disjointed season.  

Plus, after seven seasons and five books of coming to love these characters, it would feel weird to not see the show through to the end.  Like, even if the sixth book is absolutely terrible (which I doubt it will be), I'd still read the seventh if Martin lives long enough to publish it.  

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2 hours ago, briantw said:

I think they've changed a great many things (like making Euron a fucking punk), but part of the fun is going to be trying to puzzle out where the books are going based on the story beats the show hits and also attempting to figure out which beats are true to the books and which were changed.  

I'll put my example in spoilers, as I am not sure on the policy for show and potential book spoilers based on the show here.

  Reveal hidden contents

I expect the war with the Others to go very differently in the books, as I don't think there will be a Night King leader character and that Euron will take on much of that role and be the one to steal a dragon and take down the Wall, possibly with that horn that Sam has with him in Oldtown.  But even though I expect it to go differently, I think the seeds of book plot points are there for sure.  

And that, to me, is what is still enjoyable about the show, along with the absurd production values (say what you want about the plot, but the show still looks incredible).  The writing is an absolute mess at this point, and actions no longer have logical consequences.  Pretty much everything that happens happens because it's where they need the story to go rather than being a natural result of character actions, which leads to a very disjointed season.  

Plus, after seven seasons and five books of coming to love these characters, it would feel weird to not see the show through to the end.  Like, even if the sixth book is absolutely terrible (which I doubt it will be), I'd still read the seventh if Martin lives long enough to publish it.  

First off, I completely agree with the last part. I was surprised earlier today when @Ormond said he quit during season 2. Just seems like an odd place given that the show was still really good then.

As for solving the puzzle, one thing I don't love about the show is that it kind clues you in on which houses don't matter much in the end, specifically the Martells and the Greyjoys (and Young Griff). That said, I do appreciate it showing me how much I got right. The reason I came here to begin posting was because of my belief in R+L=J. I still don't know how anyone doubted that after reading the Tower of Joy scene in AGoT. 

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10 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

As for solving the puzzle, one thing I don't love about the show is that it kind clues you in on which houses don't matter much in the end, specifically the Martells and the Greyjoys (and Young Griff). That said, I do appreciate it showing me how much I got right. The reason I came here to begin posting was because of my belief in R+L=J. I still don't know how anyone doubted that after reading the Tower of Joy scene in AGoT. 

Well, I don't think it necessarily means those people are unimportant.  For example, I think Euron is pretty much being set up to be the main villain in the end, and I think Aegon will definitely take King's Landing at some point.  But they decided to cut Aegon's entire storyline, which in turn made the Martells basically useless since they were set to side with him, and I think they'll likely end up getting destroyed by Dany.  I'd be absolutely shocked if the events of this season played out in the same order in the books.  And since they stripped so much of the magical stuff from the books, Euron was basically left being just another asshole.

Gonna put the next part in spoilers since it may potentially spoil major book moments.

Spoiler

Like, I just can't imagine the walkers will be defeated midway through the final book and that Cersei will become the main bad guy right up until Dany goes nuts and kills everyone.  I think Euron will play a far greater role in the end game, I don't think Jaime will go crawling back to Cersei (unless it's to kill her), I think Tyrion will betray Dany big time, etc.

I'm not even convinced that Cersei will live through book six.  I just think D&D loved her so much as an actress that they re-wrote the ending to effectively revolve around her, at least up until the last episode.

 

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7 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Perhaps I’m misremembering, but didn’t D&D have a bit of a falling out with GRRM?

Nope. At least, there has never been anything about this reported. There is plenty of speculation that they have fallen out/Martin dislikes what they have done but as far as any of us know this is not the case.

6 hours ago, Nictarion said:

Finished S3 of Sneaky Pete. It was alright. Got a bit convoluted at times with too many cons and storylines all going on at once. I did like the new character of Lizzie. The actress really steals the scene when she’s on screen. 

But the whole appeal of Sneaky Pete is how convoluted and unbelievable it all is! ;) 

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1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Nope. At least, there has never been anything about this reported. There is plenty of speculation that they have fallen out/Martin dislikes what they have done but as far as any of us know this is not the case.

But the whole appeal of Sneaky Pete is how convoluted and unbelievable it all is! ;) 

GRRM has been on a role this week busting rumours about him/the books/the show so maybe he'll address this one soon as well.

I'd think given his past in TV he'd understand the adaptation was out of his hands and that changes were only to be expected. Whether he has an issue with the post ADWD material depends on how much he supplied them with. He can't really complain if they had to completely invent things for lack of any input from him.

Chernobyl is really good. The insanity of people denying the obvious because it didn't fit party politics is frustrating and bizarre (and probably dramatic license) but it makes for entertaining TV. Particularly some of the stats they have Jared Harris explaining to any idiot willing to listen to him

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On 5/13/2019 at 5:36 AM, Nictarion said:

Anyone watch the series finale of Veep? Selina really did my boy Gary dirty. 

I've been in mourning since late Sunday evening. It ended perfectly, with everyone utterly unfulfilled. I know the word gets tossed around a lot, but Armando Iannuchi is a comedy genius.

On 5/13/2019 at 6:55 AM, Spockydog said:

Haven't seen it yet, but I'm not surprised by that. Selina is the worst. 

Take them lies out your mouth! Selina Meyer is the best thing to happen to this country since food in buckets.

 

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4 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

But the whole appeal of Sneaky Pete is how convoluted and unbelievable it all is! ;) 

They definitely took it up a notch this season.  I really enjoyed it, but the entire conceit of (barely)

getting the entire family to California

definitely required higher than normal suspension of disbelief.  Really liked Hickey, and how

she immediately was calling Marius on all his bullshit.

  Lizzie was also fantastic, like @Nictarion said she steals every scene she's in. 

The reveal that Lila

was Maggie, was rough.

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1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I've been in mourning since late Sunday evening. It ended perfectly, with everyone utterly unfulfilled. I know the word gets tossed around a lot, but Armando Iannuchi is a comedy genius.

Take them lies out your mouth! Selina Meyer is the best thing to happen to this country since food in buckets.

 

Iannuchi left as showrunner a couple seasons ago. Or do you just mean he gets the credit in general for creating such a great show and characters?

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