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Chernobyl (miniseries)


The Monkey

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I had meant to watch this as it showed up but I ended up watching all the episodes in one sitting. Unlike most of you, I was 32 years old when it happened and over the years have read many stories about the incident. I basically knew about almost all the events shown in the series, including the fact humans had to be used because machines couldn't be.

Is the series finished, or is there another episode still? I looked up IMDb to check the cast and I see 5 episodes being mentioned. So one more still?

I think the most striking thing about the series is how it evoked horror so well. Surely the sound of a geiger counter has never been used so effectively before. Another thing the series does very well is show how short the critical timeline was. 

I was surprised at how nasty the presentation of Gorbachev was. He's always been a popular figure in the West. Not very sympathetic at all. 

I was also surprised there was no mention of how badly constructed the plant was, and how poorly trained the staff were. You only got a hint of it when the dying operators are being interviewed and the 'senior' engineer turns out to be 25. At the end of Episode 4 you hear the assessment that human error played a large part in the accident, and other than plant managers being in total denial about what happened at the moment things happened (understandable, because nothing remotely bad as this had ever happened before) more could have been done to bring this out.

But overall, my goodness this is gripping drama.

Many of you might not know this, but the other three reactors continued to be run for years, because the Ukraine desperately needed the power. The last unit was shut down in 2000.

I want to listen to the podcasts as well.

Btw, since I haven't listened to the podcasts, does anyone know if the Legasov character was a real person, and did he commit suicide?

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Yes, he was and he did. They don’t know for sure that he killed himself at that exact time, but it was so close to it and on the anniversary that they assumed it was intentional. That’s why the first time stamp says “two years and one minute earlier”.

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Episode 4 was also great. 

Those scenes on the rooftop with the workers running for 90 seconds, struggling to really do anything worthwhile and then falling over, I couldn't handle it, it was so unbelievably tense. Just that sense that the odds of getting anything done were insurmountable. 

I was a bit surprised they cast Barry Koeghan ( who I've loved in a number of movies) in a role as the young animal disposal guy, as I assumed he was an american. His accent seemed kind of off and it annoyed me as I watched. I now realise he's Irish, so all is forgiven. I mean its totally fine that all these Russians and Ukranians have British accents right?

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Quote

 

The creator got into this on the podcast a bit and said something to the effect of "This could only have happened in the USSR."  And he seemed to mean that in the West there would have been much more resistance to trying things like "we need three guys who know the plant to go down in there" or "we need 400 minors."  Not just the leadership mentality but the worker mentality too. 

 

This is true, and also applies to WWII: would Britain or the United States have accepted almost 30 million deaths as the price of stopping Hitler, not the 1/30th figure they actually paid (combined)?

That said, it's also worth noting that the design flaw in Chernobyl did not exist in Western nuclear power stations, which had pressure containment vessels fitted which would have prevented the core exploding. Three Mile Island and Fukushima would have been massively worse in those cases.  The Soviet demand for lots of cheap nuclear power stations quickly did create the problem in the first place.

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3 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I wondered where they got the figure of 90 seconds from ... I mean, I doubt they’ll be completely fine. So how many years off of their life was deemed acceptable?

I think they said earlier in the episode it would half their life expectancy and 2 minutes or more would result in the type of death we saw in episode 3. So it's pretty bad for people under 30 to be lucky to make it to 60.

5 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Episode 4 was also great. 

Those scenes on the rooftop with the workers running for 90 seconds, struggling to really do anything worthwhile and then falling over, I couldn't handle it, it was so unbelievably tense. Just that sense that the odds of getting anything done were insurmountable. 

 

 It was really well done, with the geiger counters acting like a speeding up timer of the 90s. It also felt longer than 90s which would reflect their experience. I also can't help but think I've seen news footage of this scene as it happened? That or I've seen it in documentaries (i was only 5 when it happened so my memory is hazy at best) from an air shot.

 

8 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Yes, he was and he did. They don’t know for sure that he killed himself at that exact time, but it was so close to it and on the anniversary that they assumed it was intentional. That’s why the first time stamp says “two years and one minute earlier”.

That's even more tragic that it's based on a real person. Him and those volunteers deserve statues and state honours - no idea if that was the case though

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On 5/30/2019 at 3:21 PM, Werthead said:

This is true, and also applies to WWII: would Britain or the United States have accepted almost 30 million deaths as the price of stopping Hitler, not the 1/30th figure they actually paid (combined)?

That said, it's also worth noting that the design flaw in Chernobyl did not exist in Western nuclear power stations, which had pressure containment vessels fitted which would have prevented the core exploding. Three Mile Island and Fukushima would have been massively worse in those cases.  The Soviet demand for lots of cheap nuclear power stations quickly did create the problem in the first place.

Even the difference of the pressure vessel not being present was far from the only failing in the design. RBMK reactors were known to be seriously unstable and liable to have weird power fluctuations; the reactor by it's very nature was unpredictable and difficult to control in some circumstances.
In the test they ran they nearly shut down the reaction completely by mistake, and struggled to get it back up to power. In fact the only way they could get it back to a power level they wanted was to remove nearly every control rod leaving it dangerously uncontrollable. They also messed up with the water pumps, ignored alarms, and a lot of other aspects which meant the reaction wasn't behaving how they expected.

The final nail in the coffin was really the SRAM button being pressed. The control rods caused a massive power spike, flash-boiled the little water in the core, melted the fuel channels and jammed the rest of the control assembly. Most other reactors I imagine would have survived that button press, not this design. 

In fact in Ep 4 they actually cover how this problem was known about; it had happened already but nobody bothered to handle the lessons learnt from that. And of course in good old Soviet Russia the truth was never fully available to most people; they could never admit their design was flawed.

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Stellar ending to a superb series. My one and only criticism was that the guy who directed the test that caused the disaster (can't recall the name) was a bit over-the-top in his nastiness. Maybe the sources confirm he was an asshole, but it would've been interesting to see some more nuances to his character.

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I assume that he was an asshole and there was no nuance to his character.   He was a product of 25 years in the system and he had figured out how to get ahead ... do what you are told and don't ask questions, and he expected his subordinates to do the same.    He couldn't fathom anything going wrong because it was not allowed to in the Soviet Union.    It was probably why the previous safety tests failed as well, due to much less critical problems that were ignored in order to meet a schedule.

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Well well well, Chernobyl... Please bear with me because I have so many feelings. 

A bit of unnecessary context: A few people recommended this show to me, but I was rather reluctant to commit to something so quickly when I was still waddling in the disastrous Game of Thrones experience. Then the memes reached my social media feeds. And more people recommended it. And then it was a whole internet phenomenon, so my curiosity was sparked too much to not give it a go. That’s how I got on this bandwagon. 

I watched the first 4 episodes in one go. The 1st one upset me. A lot. To the point I considered not watching the rest of the show. I have a gentle heart, I don’t do well with such under the skin psycho horror productions. It’s too recent history, it’s too modern day relevant, it’s too real. I also have some sort of historical issue with nuclear disasters, I remember having nuclear disaster nightmares after studying about them back in school. It was simply too much. But then after a some text message venting and emotional support, I did decide to go on because I was still curious. Onto episode 2. It was an even more draining and soul wrecking emotional experience. I was done, I went to take a shower, I watched makeup tutorials on YouTube, I swore to only watch Disney for two weeks. But the masochist that I am, I put on episode 3, because the curiosity in me refused to die down. I will get back to this later. Well, I watched that episode from between my two hands just so I could cover my eyes every time someone entered a hospital room. Again, too real, too close, even though I generally have a rather strong stomach for television. Pff. Okay, at this point it was about 1:30am, but I’m a millennial so I put on episode 4. That’s as an okay way to sign out and actually get sleep afterwards. That was a hell of a lot of unnecessary information. 

A couple days later I watched it all again, this time I wasn’t an emotional wreck and thus able to see Chernobyl as a television series rather than a “livestream” of a horrifying man-made disaster. Now this enhanced the reverse psychology I was experiencing during the first watch when I wasn’t busy with being shaken to the core. 

There is no doubt that’s Chernobyl is an amazing production with first class acting and beautiful, powerful dialogues that drive the plot and shape the characters (wink, wink, Dan and Dave). But. Is it the best series of the year, is it as good as to blow up the internet, is it really 10/10? I think it is close to impossible to tell, but I’m leaning toward no. (Having said that, the show is easily 8.5-9/10 so I’m arguing away only 10% of the hype it gets)

 My general problem with these types of  series and films is this: the emotional impact (and boy Chernobyl has one, see above) and the story does not come from filmmaking genius. It comes from history. Chernobyl didn’t shake me to the core because it’s filmmaking genius, but because I knew that all of this actually happened. The soul wrenching story that you want to follow through no matter how painful does not come from writing genius. It comes from history. Now I don’t mean that a film or show that recounts real modern history events cant be ingeniously put together and shot and written and directed. It absolutely can. But the story, the drama and the emotional impact is ready made for the creators. They didn’t need to create that. And this, more often than not, switches on my reverse psychology button and which then starts actively looking for everything  wrong with the film or show because it’s annoyed that history did the work for this piece of motion picture and all it really does is ride the actual event’s emotional impact. This didn’t happen too much with Chernobyl - because of how well it was made and how much it added to the actual historical event instead of just riding its emotional impact - but did seep into my mind from time to time. Another part of my issue with these motion pictures is that - because of the emotional impact of the real event -  the audience watches it with their hearts and souls rather than their eyes and minds, thus the potential for overrating and overhyping an otherwise “just okay” film or show is huge.

Isn’t it also absolutely insane that I’ve been typing for 20 minutes and I haven’t yet said a word about Chernobyl itself?  I’m ridiculous. 

Before I get into that, I feel like I should include a disclaimer: I have limited knowledge of the actual historical event and the particular era of the USSR in which it took place. I also have - thank god - no direct personal experience with the event. And like all human beings, I am  naturally biased for my own beliefs, views and convictions. 

Well then.

I found the structure and the pacing of the show reasonable and satisfying though not as smooth and blended as I would expect a 10/10 or best show of the year to be. It all worked perfectly for the first two and a half episodes. I feel like episode 3 was supposed to be the peek of horrors after which the show quieted down. This second part was done a little wonkily, in my opinion.

I couldn’t exactly decide if the purpose of episode 4 was to placate the audience and focus the attention on the containment in a calmer, solution-oriented manner after the tension of the disaster, the casualties and the frantic damage control, or if its purpose was to give last kick to the audience who is already down and emotionally burnt out. Maybe the intention was a mix, either way, I didn’t think it worked as well as it could have.

The clearing of the roof and the ordeal with the robots was the perfectly told story of how much struggle and how inhumane even the containment was. And then there was that weird and badly acted subplot of the animal hunters. Firstly, the roof cleaning established that soldiers as young as 18 were involved in the containment process. Secondly, we never saw any of the three characters again. Thirdly, maybe I’m heartless, but those puppy dogs did nothing for me. Not one episode after watching the decaying bodies of Toptunov and Ignatenko, not with the main characters exposing themselves to the radiation to save millions,  not after having seen massive amount of human casualties in the previous episodes. That dog business, as difficult as it must have been in real life, was the point where I felt like they were overdoing the emotional ride. 

Well, the pace was definitely slower, the tension less intense and we could basically see the light at the end of the tunnel. And then episode 5 came along and we just abandoned the whole containment process, we didn’t cut back to the people involved, we didn’t follow up on characters we’ve met along the way, we just jumped right into the trial. That didn’t work well. The conclusive subtitles and real life endings made up for it a little but, but I would have made room in the screen time for a quick check on the miner boss and Lyudmilla instead of the endless puppy dog scenes. For this reason and the new location, I felt like we were also completed detached from previous episodes with the only link being the main characters and Legasov’s flat. 

But all in all I understood what the route we were taking and why in terms of structure and storytelling so there isn’t too much to complain about. 

I feel like I should move this monologue into second post. 

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5 hours ago, The Monkey said:

Stellar ending to a superb series. My one and only criticism was that the guy who directed the test that caused the disaster (can't recall the name) was a bit over-the-top in his nastiness. Maybe the sources confirm he was an asshole, but it would've been interesting to see some more nuances to his character.

They certainly made him one of the most hittable characters on TV I've seen for a while. The only lee-way he had was in the misplaced confidence he could press the fail-safe button irrespective of how much he fucked things up prior to this. That said, the same type of incompetency and bullying could occur anywhere around the world.

What happened to legasov was tragic and i hope his suicide was designed to get the truth out. I also liked what legasov said about scherbina being essential. Scherbina was a great character as he was initially another stubborn bureaucrat but he quickly realised what was at play.

I was slightly disappointed they didn't cover how they built the massive dome that they placed over the reactor but that maybe didn't fit in with the timeline of the show.

The facts at the end were pretty chilling. Those miners who died were heroes, i was amazed that two of the three who went under the flooded reactor are still alive, as was the fact ge firemen uniforms are still too dangerous to move. That everyone who was on that bridge from episode 1 is dead would make a rewatch of that scene even more sad/terrifying. 

The real horror though was how the official death toll was 31 despite there being anyehere from 4000-93,000. That's a terrible disservice to all those who died trying to contain/clean-up the disaster but it's also something i imagine will continue to affect people.

A genuine "event" series that didn't overstay its welcome and was thoroughly researched adding a lot of authenticity.

Hopefully the creator's next project is of similar quality to this and not scary movie 5/ the hangover part 4!

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Well well well Chernobyl - Part 2 

I did touch on the structure, what remains to be said about the storytelling is the dialogue and the emotional ride. Though I did extensively express my thoughts about the latter already. 

The dialogue was mostly first class. Not much to say about that other than hats off to the writer and side eye to Game of Thrones. The emotional ride was again graciously handled for the most part. The only overkill for me was the puppy dog subplot and a couple character-related issues that I will get into later. The tension was beautifully portrayed and acted and nuanced, though - as I said before - established by the historical event. Still it’s delivery was masterful. 

Characters, finally! Shcherbina and Legasov were the perfectly imperfect, perfectly real and human and grey characters of the show. The acting was first class in both cases, Stellan Skarsgard was phenomenal, and Jared Harris did a truly masterful job as well.

And then... Khomyuk completed the pleasant trio but she was too perfect as her own person. Not one mistake or moral stain. In contrast, not one attempt was made to humanize Dyatlov or Bryukhanov or Fomin. Though I feel like Bryukhanov made one mention of his wife? Anyway, I would have liked to see all of them, at least Dyatlov who spent significantly more time on screen than the other two to show a human side. These were actual people, yet Dyatlov was an egoistic arse from before the explosion through dying in hospital to his trial. Not one moment of vulnerability, not one sign of remorse, not one human trait. I would have liked to see them worry about their families, feel remorse or be pressured by their superiors (this will bring us to the one plot hole the creators didn’t remember to fill) or KGB or the party. Also Dyatlov’s behavior in the control room was waaaaaay overdone in my view.

Lyudmila was the one who bugged me the most though because she was even inconsistent. She started off as the one rational and not completely stupid person who didn’t go to the bridge and raised several safety concerns, and then... my goodness. In spite of being pregnant, in spite of repeated, explicit and serious warnings from the hospital staff, in spite of her own knowledge of the dangers, she sat there with Ignatenko and placed his decaying hand on her belly. That last part was possibly the worst overkill. And all this so that Khomyuk could see it through the blur of a window and a sheet of plastic and immediately identify that she is like 3 months pregnant. Just stop this HBO behavior, HBO. It was not good. 

The miner boss was a pleasant yet simple character, very well acted. Gorbachev was amazingly acted and the actor made his limited role and screentime count. Will get back to this portrayal later. The KGB boss was slightly stereotypical but it didn’t bother me too much and it was rather sweet to see Roose Bolton as the soviet prosecutor. Akimov and Toptunov were both all right. In fact my favorite scene involved Toptunov. Will get back to this too. 

Visuals and music were top notch. Not much to say about that. Set design and costume was marvelously real, so so so very USSR, from Legasov’s kitchen gear, through the glasses and the suits, to the vehicles and the hospital. The hospital was just too perfectly depicted to not highlight. The whole thing looked and felt Soviet, beautiful job on the research and the presentation. 

The one plot hole: no scene explained why Bryukhanov and Fomin insisted on carrying out the safety test even though they had a false document saying it was done. This also undermined the scene in which Fomin promises promotions once the safety test is carried out. If the ministry believes it is already carried out why would it result in promotions? 

Lastly some conceptual notes: 

For the first 4 episodes, I really really really respected the show for not going down the Soviet hating rabbit hole. We saw people, human stupidity, human error,  human failures, human character faults, human struggles. All humans can be stupid, make bad decisions, have bad character traits, have struggles, go against the grain, have ideological differences, disagree with their government, etc. They had a human focus and not a look what the corrupt and incompetent Soviets did focus. That kinda went under the rug in episode 5 in which the focal point was the errors and corruptions of the system. Anyway, still props for not overdosing on the big bad ussr image and having a human oriented angel on the story. The same goes for Gorbachev’s portrayal. 

I was rather surprised that radiation related birth defects were not referenced. The show was disturbing and gory enough as it is to not shy away from such, yet the only related half sentence we got was Lyudmilla’s child’s death. Not that my soul needed visuals of such, but I found it slightly odd that they decided not to touch on this topic when childbirth was so consistently present (with the first historical scene of the mothers in labour, with Lyudmilla’s pregnancy, with the new baby of her neighbors, etc). 

I did no research on this and have limited knowledge, but I don’t think that being taken away in black chaikas was a thing in the late 1980s. Most certainly not here. Might have been different in the Russian SSR. Then again, my mother spent a whole year there as a student in the 1980s and so the students were either too sheltered to realize this or the show exaggerated on it a little. If anybody has more accurate knowledge of this, do correct me, please. 

And I suppose that concludes all my thoughts. 

Nope, not quite. I forgot to say that my favorite scene was Toptunov’s being teased in the changing room. In my understanding this scene was meant to underline his youth and thus lack of authority and status even though he was, on paper, senior engineer. This is of course in strong contrast with the strict, authority and hierarchy based structure and functioning of the USSR and so a highlight of the dissonances of the system. What made me love this scene so much is the probably unintentional added layer through a modern day comparison. A modern western style corporation does aim for the very culture represented in the scene: the system is flexible, the hierarchy is loose and you are totally free to be familiar with your senior engineer in the changing room especially in the generation Toptunov represents, which is again a total contrast to the USSR’s way of functioning. This complexity was so interesting to me I couldn’t not have a special place in my heart for this scene. 

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Well this more than made up for GoT.

 

The end text said that Dyatlov died in prison of radiation-related sickness, but Wikipedia says he was released after 3 years and died of heart failure in 1995. Just makes me wonder which is true and if it’s wikipedia, how much of the series is not true? I know it’s a dramatisation but still.

Reminds me of Band of Brothers which says that Private Blithe died of his wounds in 1946, but he actually lived for much longer.

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On 6/3/2019 at 11:47 PM, Triskele said:

You know, I was totally expecting the trial, but after episode one I'd not really even considered getting shown a depiction of the explosion like we got in the finale, and now I'm so glad that we did.  

Just a brilliant mini series.  I feel like it should be required viewing for humanity.  

Seriously.

Legasov’s testimony was so well done and incredibly effective. They(him, the writers)did a wonderful job of explaining the how and what of everything that went horribly wrong. His story(like many others)is so heartbreaking too, and it makes me want to dig deeper into all of this. Fucking humans.

Like @The Monkey, I did wonder if Dyatlov was that over-the-top during the night of. What a horrible fuck he was even if partially accurate.

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@rhaenysbee

I guess they could be balanced and makes shows about Fukushima (probably too soon), sellafield/windscale fire (uk) and three mile island (US). There were probably similar cover ups there.

I mean, to claim only 31 people died in the incident shows there was a cover-up/denial by the government irrespective of how they did this. 

But I do think the show was balanced in the sense the people of the USSR had a very giving/can-do spirit (unless they were forced into volunteering/signing up). There was also the sense at times they could mobilise things very quickly in a way western powers would not. I can't imagine getting hold of all the USAs liquid nitrogen could be done as quickly as in a place where the state owned all the liquid nitrogen.

4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Chernobyl is the best thing I’ve seen all year. But I do question how much of that is because of its quality and how much is because I know it’s true and that fact haunts me.

If it were pure fiction I’m not sure I’d like it half as much

I think the quality has to be there for us not to be annoyed at adapting something so raw and relatively recent. If this had been badly executed it would have been awful, so i don't really hold it against the show (or others) by tapping into the benefits from adapting real moments.

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17 minutes ago, red snow said:

I think the quality has to be there for us not to be annoyed at adapting something so raw and relatively recent. If this had been badly executed it would have been awful, so i don't really hold it against the show (or others) by tapping into the benefits from adapting real moments.

Yeah for sure the quality of the show is there, I don't think any of that is in question. But this is a show that gripped me and held me in shock for hours afterwards, and had a real physical effect on me. Not many movies or shows can do it. That has to have a lot to do with it being so close to reality.

If a similar show made about a fictional nuclear disaster was made I might roll my eyes at many of the moments or think it was all a little silly and over the top. Like 'Oh sure the miners are going to just go help yeah? pffff' 

 

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On 5/30/2019 at 10:52 AM, Heartofice said:

Episode 4 was also great.

I was a bit surprised they cast Barry Koeghan ( who I've loved in a number of movies) in a role as the young animal disposal guy, as I assumed he was an american. His accent seemed kind of off and it annoyed me as I watched. I now realise he's Irish, so all is forgiven. I mean its totally fine that all these Russians and Ukranians have British accents right?

I've only watched four episodes so far but the fourth one had the 'worst' moment for me. When they are clearing the animals and afterwards having that discussion about their first kill, where the guy says (paraphrase), 'and then you wake up the next day and you're not someone else, you're still you and you were that person all along'. I found that to be hauntingly brutal. Shortly followed by the scene where they tip all the dead animals into a pit and cover them in concrete. :crying: Probably the most upsetting thing I have watched in a long time.

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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Yeah for sure the quality of the show is there, I don't think any of that is in question. But this is a show that gripped me and held me in shock for hours afterwards, and had a real physical effect on me. Not many movies or shows can do it. That has to have a lot to do with it being so close to reality.

If a similar show made about a fictional nuclear disaster was made I might roll my eyes at many of the moments or think it was all a little silly and over the top. Like 'Oh sure the miners are going to just go help yeah? pffff' 

 

Exactly. There's no doubt the show works because if it wasn't based on an actual event we'd be "this is OTT bullshit". I think it was also a great call for them not to make a bigger deal of events with lies (not that it's needed) because part of the shock for me was finding out after the show that it wasn't BS "based on/inspired by".

 

1 hour ago, Isis said:

I've only watched four episodes so far but the fourth one had the 'worst' moment for me. When they are clearing the animals and afterwards having that discussion about their first kill, where the guy says (paraphrase), 'and then you wake up the next day and you're not someone else, you're still you and you were that person all along'. I found that to be hauntingly brutal. Shortly followed by the scene where they tip all the dead animals into a pit and cover them in concrete. :crying: Probably the most upsetting thing I have watched in a long time.

I asked whether my brother had covered his dogs' eyes when watching episode 4. I loved the very human "2 rules" the guy in charge had. I think he would have shot another soldier if he caught someone willfully making the animals suffer.

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