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Chernobyl (miniseries)


The Monkey

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I enjoyed this series a lot. It was well-shot, well-acted, and decently written. They certainly did a good job of capturing that soul-crushing frustration of a bureaucracy that refuses to acknowledge reality. It's a very tragic historical event and the series did it justice.

However, I do find myself worried that a general audience will take away from this the message that nuclear power is a horrifying and terrible monster. Humans are not rational creatures, and something like this can an ignite a deep fear in people that is completely unrelated to the size of the risk. For example, the amount people fear flying, traveling by car, and being in a terrorist attack are totally opposite the real risks posed, with real effects on things like security policies.

Nuclear power is very safe. It's much safer than almost every other form of power generation (e.g. https://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/abs/kh05000e.htmlhttps://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(07)61253-7/abstract). So as entertaining as it is, I worry that the last thing America (and the world) needs right now is a glamorization (or I guess the opposite--horrorization?) of literally the worst nuclear disaster.

But that ship has probably sailed anyway. We're doomed to fossil fuels and incremental adoption of other renewable sources.

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13 hours ago, red snow said:

I was trying to remember where I'd also seen this done in place of rusdian accents! Yeah, they really went to town with it. Buscemi was also super OTT too.

 

Like you say it's actually quite an effective tool to employ in tv and film (probably comes from radio drama come to think of it)

I liked how they did it in The Hunt For Red October. Sean Connery's and Sam Neil's characters were speaking Russian and there were subtitles then the camera sort of zooms in and rotates and when it zooms back out they're speaking English. It's as if they said, "They are speaking Russian, but from this angle you get to hear them in English now."

Anyhow, I loved the mini-series. The accents jarred me only at first and I quickly got over them, would much rather listen to English actors speaking English through the whole thing than have actors speaking Russian and reading subtitles.

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2 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

I liked how they did it in The Hunt For Red October. Sean Connery's and Sam Neil's characters were speaking Russian and there were subtitles then the camera sort of zooms in and rotates and when it zooms back out they're speaking English. It's as if they said, "They are speaking Russian, but from this angle you get to hear them in English now."

Anyhow, I loved the mini-series. The accents jarred me only at first and I quickly got over them, would much rather listen to English actors speaking English through the whole thing than have actors speaking Russian and reading subtitles.

One of the fond memories i had of "vikings" was the way they transitioned between languages. They'd start with groups of characters speaking in their native tongue before transitioning into English. We'd get occasional reminders when they met other people with different languages where, depending on the POV, they reverted back to the language they are really speaking all the time. "Warrior" is using the same trick too. It's a nice compromise and works particularly well when there are multiple languages within the show that aren't understood by all the characters

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It’s not Chernobyl that has turned people against nuclear power, that was just Russian incompetence.

No, it’s been Japan, ‘competent’ Japan. Germany made the decision to shut down it’s nuclear reactors after Japan. And of course, that’s still going on.

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7 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

It’s not Chernobyl that has turned people against nuclear power, that was just Russian incompetence.

No, it’s been Japan, ‘competent’ Japan. Germany made the decision to shut down it’s nuclear reactors after Japan. And of course, that’s still going on.

I still think it's an odd decision/over-reaction for a country not on a fault line or particularly near an ocean to close down nuclear reactors based on what happened to an island on a fault-line. I guess it's a case of genuine people-politics because I suspect many industry/government level people in Germany would rather have nuclear energy over being dependent on energy from Russia. Although Germany is probably thinking long-term in the sense that renewable energy is ultimately self-sufficient as nuclear material isn't readily available. Although it gets murkier if components for batteries are key. 

I also think Chernobyl very much plays into German's mistrust of nuclear energy as East Germany in particular was very exposed to the fall-out

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On 5/16/2019 at 6:33 PM, mashiara said:

Trisk, I remember Chernobyl. I was 10. Old enough to know something was seriously wrong but not old enough to understand why all the grownups were frantically discussing this, wondering what the danger was for us, whether we were being told the whole truth. I remember not eating fresh fruit and veggies for months afterwards, not drinking fresh milk for years. Was it paranoia or a wise precaution? I don't know. I never gave it much thought.

Me too. I was 12 and living about 700 km from the site. I remember being forced to drink iodium in school, remember adults discussing being kept in the dark and listening frantically to Radio Free Europe. I actually never realised the full extent of this accident.

I'm just after three episodes, but I already know it's a great series. Though of course sometimes it's obvious it's made by people from the West, never living under the communist regime. The minister would never come to the miners with the assist of just two soldiers to ask them for help. He would never appear there personally, he would send couple of hundred soldiers and just packed them all in the buses, no questions asked.

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There’s a good article in the New Yorker about the things the show got exactly right and the things that would never have happened. I don’t think the author mentioned the minister and the miner but they did mention the meeting between the Emma Watson character and the bureaucrat, ‘you were a manager at a shoe factory’ and considered that a bs conversation, as well as some of Legasov’s speeches, but I figure they were just plot devices to move things along.

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The author of the piece knew the Watson character was a stand-in, and found that disappointing as well. It took a team effort to fix  things, not two individuals. The Watson figure, this brave soul who immediately recognized what had happened and then faced down the barricades to get to Legasov’s side, was dramatic but kinda dumb.

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11 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

The author of the piece knew the Watson character was a stand-in, and found that disappointing as well. It took a team effort to fix  things, not two individuals. The Watson figure, this brave soul who immediately recognized what had happened and then faced down the barricades to get to Legasov’s side, was dramatic but kinda dumb.

To be fair they openly admit and make it very clear at the end of the show that she was an invented amalgamation. I can see from a story telling point why this decision was made (it's the same reason star trek doesn't have 50 scientists but 1-2 superscientists with 50 PhDs). However they could have picked one of the scientists and used them while still acknowleding it was a team effort (just have tgem in a room not with speaking parts) and not just 2 people and a politician.

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I find it a bit weird that it has become a bit of a tourist site now, ok I admit I’m equal parts interested and terrified after the series but I can’t imagine ever wanting to go there, it just seems a little macabre to me, not to mention the still present danger to your health.

 

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1 hour ago, Bittersweet Distractor said:

I find it a bit weird that it has become a bit of a tourist site now, ok I admit I’m equal parts interested and terrified after the series but I can’t imagine ever wanting to go there, it just seems a little macabre to me, not to mention the still present danger to your health.

 

It'd be an interesting exercise. Apparently if you're travelling from the UK but especially the US, you'll be exposed to more radiation on your flight over than on-site, as long as you don't drink or eat anything, go into the reactor itself or spend a lot of time handling metal objects (or staying too long in the zone of course).

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I got to episode 3 and had to take a break for a while.  It is exceedingly grim, but fascinating. I'll watch the rest of it shortly.

Also, I don't agree that the self-sacrifice shown by the miners and the firefighters and so many others would never happen elsewhere.  We see examples of it more often than you'd think.  Also, remember that most of the small folk involved in trying to contain Chernobyl didn't fully understand the true extent of their risk.  

As for the nits some folk are picking with the accents and consolidating MANY scientists into one character - these are indeed just small matters.  Everyone should watch this series.

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13 hours ago, Tears of Lys said:

I got to episode 3 and had to take a break for a while.  It is exceedingly grim, but fascinating. I'll watch the rest of it shortly.

Also, I don't agree that the self-sacrifice shown by the miners and the firefighters and so many others would never happen elsewhere.  We see examples of it more often than you'd think.  Also, remember that most of the small folk involved in trying to contain Chernobyl didn't fully understand the true extent of their risk.  

As for the nits some folk are picking with the accents and consolidating MANY scientists into one character - these are indeed just small matters.  Everyone should watch this series.

I think the firefighters/miners thing would have two different factors at play. Spur of the moment i think most people behave exactly the same because we're human and people in emergency services in particular will risk themselves for others. I think being told upfront would affect the dyanic considerably though. The second is from an insurance/liability front - I don't even know whether they'd be able to do this without signing lots of forms and even then the heads of service and politicians would probably be scared of the blowback.

I don't know whether everyone we saw volunteering in the show was 100%of those asked. Eg not everyone wanted to take part in one of the actions from episode 2 - it was a handful of people in a room full.

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16 hours ago, Werthead said:

It'd be an interesting exercise. Apparently if you're travelling from the UK but especially the US, you'll be exposed to more radiation on your flight over than on-site, as long as you don't drink or eat anything, go into the reactor itself or spend a lot of time handling metal objects (or staying too long in the zone of course).

I know the radiation levels aren’t anywhere near like what they were when it happened but I don’t know, I think I’d still feel very uneasy about going there, although I admit it would be fascinating to see the exclusion zone first hand.

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On 6/21/2019 at 5:27 PM, Fragile Bird said:

Pilots and flight attendants have higher rates of cancer than the general population because, indeed, they get exposed to so much radiation.

Wow I never knew that, is there any particular reason why they get exposed to more of it?, is there more at higher altitudes?.

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27 minutes ago, Bittersweet Distractor said:

Wow I never knew that, is there any particular reason why they get exposed to more of it?, is there more at higher altitudes?.

The atmosphere protects us from cosmic radiation. The thinner atmosphere at 35,000 feet means more radiation. Also, the further north or south you live from the Equator, the more radiation exposure you receive as well, because the Earth’s magnetic field deflects radiation toward the poles.

It’s not a lot of radiation, less than you’d receive from a chest x-ray if you fly across North America. But when you do that 200 or 300 times a year, for years, it adds up.

We also get radiation in many parts of the country from building houses on the ground. Lots of radioactive rock is out there, and radon gas comes in through the sewers and cracks in the foundation, as decaying uranium turns to gas. You need to know the situation wherever you live. It’s mild stuff, but again, if you live on top of the stuff for 40 or 50 years, you might develop some form of cancer. The stuff is everywhere in North America.

eta: Actually, I shouldn’t downplay it. Some areas are quite bad, and you can get lung cancer.

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1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

The atmosphere protects us from cosmic radiation. The thinner atmosphere at 35,000 feet means more radiation. Also, the further north or south you live from the Equator, the more radiation exposure you receive as well, because the Earth’s magnetic field deflects radiation toward the poles.

It’s not a lot of radiation, less than you’d receive from a chest x-ray if you fly across North America. But when you do that 200 or 300 times a year, for years, it adds up.

We also get radiation in many parts of the country from building houses on the ground. Lots of radioactive rock is out there, and radon gas comes in through the sewers and cracks in the foundation, as decaying uranium turns to gas. You need to know the situation wherever you live. It’s mild stuff, but again, if you live on top of the stuff for 40 or 50 years, you might develop some form of cancer. The stuff is everywhere in North America.

eta: Actually, I shouldn’t downplay it. Some areas are quite bad, and you can get lung cancer.

Thanks, I really didn't know that about flying, having radioactive areas in the ground makes sense though as uranium is reasonably common in rocks I think?.

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On 6/21/2019 at 6:27 PM, Fragile Bird said:

Pilots and flight attendants have higher rates of cancer than the general population because, indeed, they get exposed to so much radiation.

During a lecture (i think) there was an interesting comment about the lecturer's friend who had a mole in his ear. The lecturer told him to mention the pilot/higher radiation thing to the GP and was immediately sent for further investigation. Turns out it was aggressive cancer but tbe early intervention worked.

It's the same with radiographers hiding while you get your x-ray.

Regarding houses, Aberdeen in scotland is particularly bad for radon from the granite houses

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On 6/7/2019 at 2:43 AM, Trebla said:

In "This is NOT The Onion" news, Russian TV is creating a tv series about Chernobyl is response to this series. In this new series, the TRUE culprits will be American spies who infiltrated the plant and caused the explosion. https://news.avclub.com/russia-hates-hbos-chernobyl-vows-to-make-its-own-serie-1835298424

 

If the Putin-loving Steven Seagal doesn't star as the KGB hero, it will be a real travesty. And I fully expect our President to give it a GLOWING review. 

Apparently, it is not a response to the HBO series. It is just something they have been working on for a while.

***

I have finished this 2 days ago, having started 3 days ago :D I couldn't have stopped watching. It was brilliant, start to end.

Of all the layers of this story, I think the entire systemic failure is what I have found to be the most upsetting. Not because I wasn't aware of incompetence, partisan bureaucracy and general lack for people of SSSR back then, but how relevant all that is to my country these days. You know, you can abandon communism, but communism will never abandon you. After breakup of SSSR, many Eastern bloc countries broke into smaller pieces, including Yugoslavia creating pseudo-democratic societies. Oh, yes, they are all pro-European, they are all democratic, but none of them fully comprehends democracy. Not in Serbia, not in Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia etc. 

So, I was thinking "can you imagine us with nuclear power plant"? And it was like a worm in my head. I swear to God, we would make Chernobyl disaster look like a forgettable thing. When Ulyana said "you worked in the shoe factory", I felt that. When you live in a country where a plumber, waiter or taxi driver earns twice than a pharmacist or doctor, the idea of nuclear power plant seems horrifying. When you think about half a million people that immigrated to Western countries (we are the best providers of medical personnel for Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France...), can you imagine what we would do with a power plant? 

That was what affected me the most. Not the disaster itself, but the system that allowed that, The system that collapsed from inside, the system that was built on so many lies that it could not withstand even the simplest truths. Sadly, that is also the system many parts of the world still live in. And that is where Chernobyl stops being a TV show, or history data and starts being a reality. 

And after that entire train of thought, I remembered. We don't have a nuclear power plant. Thank the heavens. 

 

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