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Flightless bird

Book Sansa verses Show Sansa (Book spoilers)

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Posted (edited)

In the show Sansas character has evolved, to become dominant, clever, sly, manipultive and scheming with a strong sense of will and determination to get what she wants.

In the books shes a dreamer that often believes her own lies and daydreams. George RR Martin stated that Sansa is one POV that can't be 100% trusted because of the way her slightly deluded mind works, in the book she sees the world with handsom, gallant knights. loyal friends and trusts far too easily. An example of her believing her own daydreams is the famous Unkiss, or believing Joffery was in the right with the fight against the butchers boy. In the books she is not raped by Ramsey Bolton that was Janet Poole she is still very much an innocent maiden, with no commen sense, still being manipulated by Littlefinger at the Eerie. 

In the books I do not find her to be clever at all...

In the books do you guys think she will be able to evolve from the character portrayed, into the show version of Sansa we see in the tv series?  

Edited by Flightless bird

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17 hours ago, Flightless bird said:

In the books I do not find her to be clever at all...

Nor did I find her to be clever at all until S6. 

I believe the development of Sansa is in agreement with GRRM. Sansa is still young in the books and maybe the timeline will be a little bit more stretched in the books, too.

It is believable that turning from a 13-year old naive girl to a young lady survived a lot of hardship, a lot of toughness might arise. Maturity changes people anyway.

On the other hand, the show probably likes to paint her a little bit more dramatic, more clever and mature than the book will. We will see.

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17 hours ago, Flightless bird said:

In the show Sansas character has evolved, to become dominant, clever, sly, manipultive and scheming with a strong sense of will and determination to get what she wants.

In the books shes a dreamer that often believes her own lies and daydreams. George RR Martin stated that Sansa is one POV that can't be 100% trusted because of the way her slightly deluded mind works, in the book she sees the world with handsom, gallant knights. loyal friends and trusts far too easily. An example of her believing her own daydreams is the famous Unkiss, or believing Joffery was in the right with the fight against the butchers boy. In the books she is not raped by Ramsey Bolton that was Janet Poole she is still very much an innocent maiden, with no commen sense, still being manipulated by Littlefinger at the Eerie. 

In the books I do not find her to be clever at all...

In the books do you guys think she will be able to evolve from the character portrayed, into the show version of Sansa we see in the tv series?  

I think the key to your issue with Sansa is your misunderstanding of Littlefinger.

Book Littlefinger and show Littlefinger are completely different characters.

Book Littlefinger is everyone's friend. The only person who didn't like or trust him (in the least) was Ned but Ned obviously changed his mind -- to his detriment. The point is that Littlefinger is so likable is because he's so helpful, he has an earnestness about him and he makes people laugh. It makes him all the more devious and untrustworthy. Some people can see through it: Varys and the Lords Declarant obviously do. The more Tyrion thinks about Littlefinger the more uneasy he gets. And then there's Sansa...who had famously noted that Littlefinger never smiles with his eyes. They are all fake.

This is who Sansa is learning to become and this is who Sansa has to fight. And it's much more in line with who she is in the books. Sansa already knows how to work a ballroom; she already knows how to lie (she even fools Littlefinger several times); and she already knows all her courtesies

That is who Sansa is learning from. That's much more in line 

Show Littlefinger is portrayed as openly untrustworthy

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Well at this time in the books sansa just saw littlefinger kill lady aryn or at least it happened not too long ago. I would argue about show sansa being smart but that isn't what your asking. I think that book sansa will become smarter and better then show sansa. Also remember that while book sansa may not be going to see ramsey like in the show she did deal with joffrey having her live in terror and being constantly scared that she was gonna be killed by joffrey for probably a year if I had to guess.

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I %100 believe that the show runners made Sansa take the place of Janet Poole to gain sympathy for her and it worked. Just look at the hatred for Dany this season because they made Sansa hate her. Dany in the books and the show has went through way more shit than Sansa ever had. As far as I'm concerned that rape never happened to Sansa because she was never supposed to be there. 

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4 hours ago, Areisius said:

I %100 believe that the show runners made Sansa take the place of Janet Poole to gain sympathy for her and it worked. Just look at the hatred for Dany this season because they made Sansa hate her. Dany in the books and the show has went through way more shit than Sansa ever had. As far as I'm concerned that rape never happened to Sansa because she was never supposed to be there. 

I lost all respect for show sansa when she screwed over jon the way she did last episode. In the books we see her as a naive girl who is growing up so we will see where that goes. However sansa lived in constant terror since she went to KL so I don't think she has had it easy even excluding what happened with ramsey. In the books it really explains how hard dany had it with drogo and the desert and so on and so on. I would say that neither had it easy. However when you factor in that dany didn't grow up in a loving household like sansa did I think dany takes the bad luck cake.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2019 at 4:58 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

I think the key to your issue with Sansa is your misunderstanding of Littlefinger.

Book Littlefinger and show Littlefinger are completely different characters.

Book Littlefinger is everyone's friend. The only person who didn't like or trust him (in the least) was Ned but Ned obviously changed his mind -- to his detriment. The point is that Littlefinger is so likable is because he's so helpful, he has an earnestness about him and he makes people laugh. It makes him all the more devious and untrustworthy. Some people can see through it: Varys and the Lords Declarant obviously do. The more Tyrion thinks about Littlefinger the more uneasy he gets. And then there's Sansa...who had famously noted that Littlefinger never smiles with his eyes. They are all fake.

This is who Sansa is learning to become and this is who Sansa has to fight. And it's much more in line with who she is in the books. Sansa already knows how to work a ballroom; she already knows how to lie (she even fools Littlefinger several times); and she already knows all her courtesies

That is who Sansa is learning from. That's much more in line 

Show Littlefinger is portrayed as openly untrustworthy

No we see tyrion didn't trust him either. He says this to catlyn stark when she is taking up the mountain and several times later. However in the books they stress how he is so useful that it is an acceptable tradeoff. For example in books he helps spread the anti stannis propaganda and does alot of other stuff that makes more sense. In the books it makes it seem like varys and little finger are the cause of everything or at least had a large part in causing all the chaos.

Edited by snow is the man

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Book Sansa is still pretty much a child. She has done some unbelievably stupid things with devastating consequences, she acted naively and childish, which is understandable. But I don't dislike her. She is annoying and exasperating at times, but not a bad soul, just young and naive.. They made show Sansa unlikeable, at least for me. Backstabbing, conniving, and petty. What some see as clever, I just see Littlefinger and Cersei, which definitely doesn't make me fond of her. I don't know what direction the books will go. Hopefully we get to find out.

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I honestly think and hope Sansa arc will be to become a better person in the end and not female Littlefinger, like she is on the show. I also hope she brings Littlefinger down herself and doesn't rely on her all knowing brother to beat him.

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13 minutes ago, sifth said:

I honestly think and hope Sansa arc will be to become a better person in the end and not female Littlefinger, like she is on the show. I also hope she brings Littlefinger down herself and doesn't rely on her all knowing brother to beat him.

I don't know about that.

She might really need the help. And if she needs it, she should absolutely ask for it. That's what brothers and sisters are for.

The lone wolf dies but the pack survives

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I don't know about that.

She might really need the help. And if she needs it, she should absolutely ask for it. That's what brothers and sisters are for.

The lone wolf dies but the pack survives

Getting help is one thing, but relying on someone else to win the fight for you is another.

Having Sansa notice when Littlefinger screws up in some way and her taking advantage of the opening, would be much more satisfying, IMO

Edited by sifth

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Hopefully.  When we last saw her in (I think) A Feast for Crows, Sansa appeared to be straddling a moral line:  Littlefinger has told her that Robin will not live and that Harry-the-Heir will inherit House Arryn; and he keeps giving orders for sweetsleep to be given to Robin, though it is dangerous.  Sansa isn't objecting (though there is an argument that the sweetsleep was necessary to be given to Robin in order to get him through the dangerous trek down from the Eyrie).  If she does nothing to save Robin, is she Littlefinger's victim or an accessory to his crime?  Sansa is also dependent on Littlefinger for his protection against Cersei; thanks to Littlefinger and Olenna's plot, Sansa is wanted for regicide and has nowhere else she can go to (at least got to safely) for help.  What's interesting is that Arya is also being mentored by morally questionable people (Faceless Men) and has killed a man who never harmed her, on their orders.  Sort of a parallel arc; especially since the Stark girls are hiding their true selves under aliases.

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4 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Hopefully.  When we last saw her in (I think) A Feast for Crows, Sansa appeared to be straddling a moral line:  Littlefinger has told her that Robin will not live and that Harry-the-Heir will inherit House Arryn; and he keeps giving orders for sweetsleep to be given to Robin, though it is dangerous.  Sansa isn't objecting (though there is an argument that the sweetsleep was necessary to be given to Robin in order to get him through the dangerous trek down from the Eyrie).  If she does nothing to save Robin, is she Littlefinger's victim or an accessory to his crime?  Sansa is also dependent on Littlefinger for his protection against Cersei; thanks to Littlefinger and Olenna's plot, Sansa is wanted for regicide and has nowhere else she can go to (at least got to safely) for help.  What's interesting is that Arya is also being mentored by morally questionable people (Faceless Men) and has killed a man who never harmed her, on their orders.  Sort of a parallel arc; especially since the Stark girls are hiding their true selves under aliases.

It's also interesting see how Sansa seems to be slipping into her new identity much more easier than Arya. I remember the first time I read a chapter titled "Alayne" and was thinking, wtf.

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Show Sansa is David and Dan giving in to the fans who threw a fit when Ramsay raped her.  HBO corporate probably got a lot of mail and asked them to turn Sansa into she's completely not in the books.

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