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Hippocras

Dany Marries Gendry?

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Posted (edited)

There is another thread proposing that Dany's turn to Mad Queen is a fake out and she is not going to go all Fire and Blood after all.

What if, as a way to try to bring people securely to her side, she demands that Gendry marry her, as she did in Meereen? Gendry was just turned down by Arya, so he wouldn't necessarily say anything about being in love with her. And Dany wouldn't give him much choice anyway, just tell him it is his duty to help bring peace, because it would establish her dominance in the Baratheon line of succession ahead of Cersei, and if Jon wanted to press his claim it would be via a rival line of succession. Gendry is legitimate now, which means whether intended or not, Gendry is the lawful King of the Baratheon line, not Cersei.

If she makes this move the betrothal/demand would need to happen in E5 or serve no purpose.

Edited by Hippocras

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15 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

Cool! Especially when Jon is withdrawing that might be a nice twist.

Yes, except I am pretty sure Cersei would mess it up somehow. Maybe she would kidnap Gendry and kill him. There will be a fight, this would just modify the dynamic of that fight.

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If we were midway through the season, there might be enough time for all that to play out, but I doubt it. I'm not saying it's not a cool idea. I just don't think we've got enough show left to explore it properly (basically 1 episode after the next big battle), so if it did happen, it wouldn't be done very effectively.

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1 hour ago, Anthony Pirtle said:

If we were midway through the season, there might be enough time for all that to play out, but I doubt it. I'm not saying it's not a cool idea. I just don't think we've got enough show left to explore it properly (basically 1 episode after the next big battle), so if it did happen, it wouldn't be done very effectively.

I don't see this needing very much time at all. Basically one scene with Dany in clear distress and considering destruction of KL. One scene where Tyrion suggests a strategy of marrying Gendry, using this to turn the people of KL firmly against Cersei because it effectively invalidates her rule. One scene where Varys or Davos or someone else sneaks in to KL to spread the word, while someone else goes to get Gendry (with Jon's army?)…

And then one or two scenes where Cersei manages to f*** it all up and let loose all hell.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Hippocras said:

hread proposing that Dany's turn to Mad Queen is a fake out and she is not going to go all Fire and Blood after all.

Well, I still believe this is all much to black-and-white.

Daenerys has shown signs of instability, of rage and fury, in all seasons. Daenerys has shown signs of warmheartedness as well. Game of Thrones is  ot about black-and-white, but about nuances and the depth of what humanness encompasses.

Daenerys might freak out after having witnessed the beheading of Missandei. She might kill hundreds or thousands of small folk. She is known to be instable and her face in the last scene was actually that dangerous mix of fury and grief, of losing it.

That does not mean that Daenerys turns mad as in a medical condition. But she might act "like mad" and have her priorities on killing Cersei, on revenge, on carrying out her battle now. She might mount Drogon and "burn them all". Whether you call this mad or not, does not matter. What matters, is what she actually does.

Maybe Tyrion and Varys once more talk her out of an dangerous and fatal immediate attack. Maybe not. But they showed us clearly that Daenerys was on the verge of anger, rage, fury. This is even understandable in such circumstances.

Edited by Kajjo

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2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Well, I still believe this is all much to black-and-white.

Daenerys has shown signs of instability, of rage and fury, in all seasons. Daenerys has shown signs of warmheartedness as well. Game of Thrones is  ot about black-and-white, but about nuances and the depth of what humanness encompasses.

Daenerys might freak out after having witnessed the beheading of Missandei. She might kill hundreds or thousands of small folk. She is known to be instable and her face in the last scene was actually that dangerous mix of fury and grief, of losing it.

That does not mean that Daenerys turns mad as in a medical condition. But she might act "like mad" and have her priorities on killing Cersei, on revenge, on carrying out her battle now. She might mount Drogon and "burn them all". Whether you call this mad or not, does not matter. What matters, is what she actually does.

Maybe Tyrion and Varys once more talk her out of an dangerous and fatal immediate attack. Maybe not. But they showed us clearly that Daenerys was on the verge of anger, rage, fury. This is even understandable in such circumstances.

Well to be fair what is gonna do? She has to fight cersei and tyrions plan of a siege is not exactly the "humane" way to win that he makes it sound like. During a siege the poor will starve and get sick and dye in great numbers until eventually the soldiers get to weak to fight and dany attacks and takes the city quicker or that they get to a point where the rebel against cersei and since she will be in the red keep surrounded by well fed soldiers I don't see the peasents doing well in that fight. Cersei doesn't care about the people and would have no problem having them all starve if it means she rules another minute. So it would be until they rebel and given that they haven't done that yet I don't see them doing it anytime soon.

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Why would the people turn against Cersei because a foreign invader, that they have been told plans to burn them all, like she did the Tarlys, marries some random guy that SHE names Lord Baratheon? 

 

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15 hours ago, Hippocras said:

There is another thread proposing that Dany's turn to Mad Queen is a fake out and she is not going to go all Fire and Blood after all.

What if, as a way to try to bring people securely to her side, she demands that Gendry marry her, as she did in Meereen? Gendry was just turned down by Arya, so he wouldn't necessarily say anything about being in love with her. And Dany wouldn't give him much choice anyway, just tell him it is his duty to help bring peace, because it would establish her dominance in the Baratheon line of succession ahead of Cersei, and if Jon wanted to press his claim it would be via a rival line of succession. Gendry is legitimate now, which means whether intended or not, Gendry is the lawful King of the Baratheon line, not Cersei.

If she makes this move the betrothal/demand would need to happen in E5 or serve no purpose.

Cersei isn't ruling as head of House Baratheon. I'm not even sure she's ruling as a Lannister. (Jaime would be ahead of her there.) She's just Queen Cersei, alone with her zombie, her wizard, and her rockstar pirate. 

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7 hours ago, Hippocras said:

I don't see this needing very much time at all. Basically one scene with Dany in clear distress and considering destruction of KL. One scene where Tyrion suggests a strategy of marrying Gendry, using this to turn the people of KL firmly against Cersei because it effectively invalidates her rule. One scene where Varys or Davos or someone else sneaks in to KL to spread the word, while someone else goes to get Gendry (with Jon's army?)…

And then one or two scenes where Cersei manages to f*** it all up and let loose all hell.

If the people of King's Landing didn't give a hoot about the Massacre/Sacrilege at the Sept or Cersei possibly having her son the king killed, I don't see why Gendry would move them one way or the other. 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Anthony Pirtle said:

If we were midway through the season, there might be enough time for all that to play out, but I doubt it. I'm not saying it's not a cool idea. I just don't think we've got enough show left to explore it properly (basically 1 episode after the next big battle), so if it did happen, it wouldn't be done very effectively.

I reckon that the battles with the Iron Fleet and the Golden Company will be the last big battles, and that they'll both finish up in tomorrow's episode. I don't think the final episode will be a big battle episode: that's why 803 and 805 have the director they do.

So I don't think there are any more. The next big battles are the last big battles, and 806 will be something altogether different to finish off the series with.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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3 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

I reckon that the battles with the Iron Fleet and the Golden Company will be the last big battles, and that they'll both finish up in tomorrow's episode. I don't think the final episode will be a big battle episode: that's why 803 and 805 have the director they do.

So I don't think there are any more. The next big battles are the last big battles, and 806 will be something altogether different to finish off the series with.

I agree. This would happen tomorrow. Before the battle. As a last ditch effort to avoid burning KL.

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6 hours ago, dbunting said:

Why would the people turn against Cersei because a foreign invader, that they have been told plans to burn them all, like she did the Tarlys, marries some random guy that SHE names Lord Baratheon? 

 

Lots of people in KL actually know Gendry remember. He spent most of his life there. Not the nobility, certainly. But they are not the ones that matter if trying to get the townspeople to revolt. They all know very well that Cersei burnt the sept, so it is not like they really feel safe and happy with her.

And it is a siege. They will be getting hungry.

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8 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

Lots of people in KL actually know Gendry remember. He spent most of his life there. Not the nobility, certainly. But they are not the ones that matter if trying to get the townspeople to revolt. They all know very well that Cersei burnt the sept, so it is not like they really feel safe and happy with her.

And it is a siege. They will be getting hungry.

Not so much. In a city of a million people they don't know some random 15 year old (about how old he was when he left) parent less flea bottom smith who was gone for a long time headed to the wall, then came back after rowing a boat, then left again. 

If the people didn't revolt when thousands were burnt when the Sept was destroyed then they sure as hell won't care that Dany, an outside boogey woman with dragons and dothraki tells them that he is King Bobs bastard the she decided is now a Lord.

It is not really a siege since Euron owns the port, not Dany.

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32 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Not so much. In a city of a million people they don't know some random 15 year old (about how old he was when he left) parent less flea bottom smith who was gone for a long time headed to the wall, then came back after rowing a boat, then left again. 

If the people didn't revolt when thousands were burnt when the Sept was destroyed then they sure as hell won't care that Dany, an outside boogey woman with dragons and dothraki tells them that he is King Bobs bastard the she decided is now a Lord.

It is not really a siege since Euron owns the port, not Dany.

Dany just needs to wait for darkness or heavy clouds and Euron’s fleet will be toast. Unless Dany ditches the plan, cutting off the food suply to KL IS the plan as we saw in E4.

And you forget that the people revolted before. Hunger is a powerful motivator, and Gendry helps with more than just that because instead of being behind Jon in the Targ line of succession, with Gendry they are ahead of Cersei in the Baratheon line. Cersei’s claim to the throne rests entirely on being the closest relative of her deceased children. So the move is not just about convincing KL to revolt, but also about establishing Dany’s position even if (when) word of Jon’s identity gets out.

 

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40 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

Dany just needs to wait for darkness or heavy clouds and Euron’s fleet will be toast. Unless Dany ditches the plan, cutting off the food suply to KL IS the plan as we saw in E4.

And you forget that the people revolted before. Hunger is a powerful motivator, and Gendry helps with more than just that because instead of being behind Jon in the Targ line of succession, with Gendry they are ahead of Cersei in the Baratheon line. Cersei’s claim to the throne rests entirely on being the closest relative of her deceased children. So the move is not just about convincing KL to revolt, but also about establishing Dany’s position even if (when) word of Jon’s identity gets out.

 

This could also be the reason why Jaime left. We see Sansa talk to Brienne when Jaime comes to the scene. Sansa knows -> Brienne knows -> Jaime knows. He might go to Cersei and tell that Jon's closer to the throne, not Dany. Or he went to protect Jon. Depends on which side Jaime really is now...

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4 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

This could also be the reason why Jaime left. We see Sansa talk to Brienne when Jaime comes to the scene. Sansa knows -> Brienne knows -> Jaime knows. He might go to Cersei and tell that Jon's closer to the throne, not Dany. Or he went to protect Jon. Depends on which side Jaime really is now...

I really don’t think Jaime knows about Jon. It is hard to say what Jaime is up to right now. It could be related to finding out about Gendry though, I will grant you that. He looked VERY interested. Maybe he will propose the same thing to Cersei. Yikes.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

I really don’t think Jaime knows about Jon. It is hard to say what Jaime is up to right now. It could be related to finding out about Gendry though, I will grant you that. He looked VERY interested. Maybe he will propose the same thing to Cersei. Yikes.

True that.

And there's still a possibility (in my mind) that Gendry is Cersei's son, too. Their first child dying was brought up many times in the show, so they could still use it. Jaime could have hid the boy when the parents thought he was a goner. Cersei's even said she never went in crypt to see him. I know that his remains wouldn't be there to watch, but this could imply that his body's not there.

My imagination tends to run wild the closer the next episode is, though.

Edited by Deminelle

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hippocras said:

Dany just needs to wait for darkness or heavy clouds and Euron’s fleet will be toast. Unless Dany ditches the plan, cutting off the food suply to KL IS the plan as we saw in E4.

 

That was the plan at Winterfell, not the one after she lost another dragon and clearly has zero control over the water, which is how you can bring in food, so no shortage of food.

Edited by dbunting
clarity

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