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Football: pool in to the Final Spur of the season


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49 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

As a n00b Chelsea fan, should I actually be happy that we won the UEFA Europa League? I get that we got a cup, but isn’t this one of the sadder cups?

It's a major trophy and should be celebrated. Don't listen to those entitled cretins on social media who think that every trophy other than a league or CL title is a mickey mouse cup.

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36 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It’s a little hard to enjoy given that it was our best player’s farewell game.  

It happens. You'll get a tidy sum for Hazard, you'll replace him with a few players and you'll continue to compete, both in CL and PL. And you get to celebrate a trophy on top of that, one that Arsenal and their fans would have relished, if only to make it into CL.

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49 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Maybe he thinks he can be the face of the rebuild rather than being a cog at Barca. Maybe he's got the confidence in himself and is being convinced by the negotiating team that it's a workable project and he can get the glory of being the man who changed it round.

To be convinced by the negotiating team about the merits of the pojects, they would actually need to know what the poject will look. I don't think they can. So what is the footballing vision for the future United team? Direct attacking football, posession based football, high press, counter attacking football? Who will be in charge of all of that? Which players will be there (Pogba?), fullbacks need to be brought in, and strengthening in central midfield is required.

52 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Put it this way VVD signed for Liverpool and now he's a hero in a way he would be less likely to be if he'd gone to Barca or Madrid or even City. 

van Dijk and de Ligt are seperate footballers, at different points in their career. van Dijk has played professional football a bit longer, and I think it's a tough ask for a young player like de Ligt to do the face of the club thing. On top of that, with Liverpool you had a whole lot less question marks than you have with United now. van Dijk knew that Klopp would be in charge. He saw the development and recruitment of the team and got an idea that the general direction of the team was going upward, and given by the way Liverpool played at that time it looked like he signed up for an attacking team. There were a few holes in that team, mainly his position (centrebacks) and maybe goalkeeping needed strengthening at the time. So he had a more or less accurate idea what he was signing up to. The whole situation at Liverpool was way more sorted, then it is now at United. So it was an easier sales pitch for the negotiating team.

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13 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

So what is the footballing vision for the future United team? Direct attacking football, posession based football, high press, counter attacking football? Who will be in charge of all of that? Which players will be there (Pogba?), fullbacks need to be brought in, and strengthening in central midfield is required.

Yeah look I don't know what they're telling players they're meeting with but they're clearly telling them something. But even if they're telling them a load of horseshit and the players are being had, that's gullibility, not greed.

I'm not saying money doesn't come into it coz it obviously does. But this idea that money is the only possible reason that a young player could want to sign for United is just silly.

 

 

15 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

van Dijk has played professional football a bit longer, and I think it's a tough ask for a young player like de Ligt to do the face of the club thing.

That's what you think. It isn't necessarily what he thinks. We're speculating wildly on what his motives are, after all.

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Fair enough. But like I said, I think there are too many question marks at United right now to be considered a prefered destination for de Ligt. Well, we'll wait and see. But I stll don't think he will end up at Old Trafford.

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4 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

 I see it's being talked about that Conte wants Lukaku at Inter, with Perisic+ maybe coming the other way. Interested? 



No, coz despite his limitations it'd be much harder to get a striker as good as Lukaku than a wide player as good as Perisic, and in any case we need someone for the right a lot more than someone for the left.

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49 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I'm not saying money doesn't come into it coz it obviously does. But this idea that money is the only possible reason that a young player could want to sign for United is just silly.

Even if he goes to Barca (which seems the most likely) money will be a factor. Money is always a factor for the vast majority of players. He gave an interview recently where he was asked about his dream club (or something to that effect) and he replied that Ajax was the only club he's ever dreamed of playing for.

 

3 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

I mean when Raiola is your agent it’s not surprising you’re going after the biggest payday possible. 

Thing is, Raiola is actually no worse than most agents. Football agents are gouging clubs across the board. Raiola just happens to be an obnoxious loudmouth who talks a lot of shite and so gets more attention than most. I wish football implements a cap on commissions like they do in the NFL.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47817930

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5 hours ago, ljkeane said:

He was leaving either way so you might as well enjoy winning the trophy.

I know, but in weighing which team to finally pick, having your star's name be so cool did have at least a 1% impact.

:P

5 hours ago, Consigliere said:

It's a major trophy and should be celebrated. Don't listen to those entitled cretins on social media who think that every trophy other than a league or CL title is a mickey mouse cup.

That's pretty much exactly what I was hearing in the wake of the win. Chelsea fans who know more than me were seeming to react with a muffled "yay?" 

5 hours ago, Mexal said:

It happens. You'll get a tidy sum for Hazard, you'll replace him with a few players and you'll continue to compete, both in CL and PL. And you get to celebrate a trophy on top of that, one that Arsenal and their fans would have relished, if only to make it into CL.

Yeah, I felt bad when I learned that knocked you guys out of CL. Speaking of which, I think tomorrow will be my first CLF. Bring on the #cans! 

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8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's pretty much exactly what I was hearing in the wake of the win. Chelsea fans who know more than me were seeming to react with a muffled "yay?" 

Nah, man, I don’t get why any Chelsea fan would shrug off winning the Europa League. It may not have had some of the more household European clubs competing in it, but any trophy where you have to beat Arsenal in the final is a good trophy to win.

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12 minutes ago, Jordan La Cabra said:

Nah, man, I don’t get why any Chelsea fan would shrug off winning the Europa League. It may not have had some of the more household European clubs competing in it, but any trophy where you have to beat Arsenal in the final is a good trophy to win.

Fair enough. The analogy I was given probably won't mean much to people here, but thankfully @Mexal will get it because it's another sport he follows. Here in the U.S., college basketball isn't the most watch sport during the regular season, but often it feels like the entire country comes to a standstill when March Madness begins. It's a 64 team single elimination tournament. Mex and I both went to schools which expect to make the tournament most years. Additionally, there's a second 64 team tournament called the NIT. It's not watched on nearly the same level, and teams like ours would be disappointed to be placed in it. A couple years ago my team won it when we failed to make the main dance. Nobody cared. There was little talk about it. The American Chelsea analysts I was listening to compared it to that, but it's worth noting that he's a total Chelsea snob.

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On a not so serious note.

Conciously picking Chelsea as your team, I am not sure which series of life choices is more questionable, having friends who voluntarily worked for Paul Ryan or picking Chelsea as your favorite football club. I can see how one stumbles into a friendship with a Ryan staffer, but choosing Chelsea.

 

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13 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Fair enough. The analogy I was given probably won't mean much to people here, but thankfully @Mexal will get it because it's another sport he follows. Here in the U.S., college basketball isn't the most watch sport during the regular season, but often it feels like the entire country comes to a standstill when March Madness begins. It's a 64 team single elimination tournament. Mex and I both went to schools which expect to make the tournament most years. Additionally, there's a second 64 team tournament called the NIT. It's not watched on nearly the same level, and teams like ours would be disappointed to be placed in it. A couple years ago my team won it when we failed to make the main dance. Nobody cared. There was little talk about it. The American Chelsea analysts I was listening to compared it to that, but it's worth noting that he's a total Chelsea snob.

I can see where they are coming from with that analogy but the Europa League is still considered a big competition in football. There are only two UEFA competitions in club football with a group stage and knock out format, the Europa League and the Champions League.

While the Europa League isn’t as strong in terms of the level of competing teams, it still usually has a good mix of some bigger teams that missed out on CL qualification from England, Italy, Germany, Spain and France. Then, after the group stage of the CL is completed, 3rd placed teams from groups can be demoted to the EL for the knock out stage. This year, for instance, Napoli fell into the EL from the CL, but it was very nearly Liverpool that fell into the EL instead of Napoli. Last year, Atletico fell in from the CL group stage to EL knockout stage and went onto win the competition. When Chelsea last won the EL in 2013, we fell in by coming third in our CL group that season.

Going by the teams that entered the EL at the group stage this season, Chelsea probably were the strongest team and should have been the favourite to win it. That maybe changed slightly when Napoli fell in from the CL.

If Chelsea started this season in the CL instead, we’d probably have had around 10 teams more likely to win the CL than us, though, which probably gives a fair idea of the difference in the level of the EL compared to the CL.

 

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