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Tyrion1991

Is Danys story the reason TWOW is delayed?

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On 5/17/2019 at 2:47 PM, Deadliestviper7 said:

Not often is someone accused of having to much balls (lol) heh!

on a more serious note, think of each of the series characters as a fractal (albeit an imperfect one ) as the storyline progresses you get more and more splits, each needing to be manipulated properly so that it can be made into a nice sturdy rope.

 

in effect he needs to weave, and not split so much to make an effective storyline, no more gardening, now he needs to cull the less desirable plants and let the rest live.

I've said that for years.Think one of the reasons for him not culling is he doesn't wanna hear everyone bitching about how "so-so's story never ended." And so on.

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On 5/12/2019 at 3:23 AM, Tyrion1991 said:

I remember reading that ADWD was delayed because GRRM had issues juggling the various POV gathered around Daenerys in Meereen. 

However, he never actually resolved the Mereen storyline. In fact he made it much more complicated by having Danerys go on a tangent with the Dothraki. Even if that’s, literally a three chapter deal (unlikely)and she fast travels to Mereen or Volantis.

You have, arguably the biggest battle in the series at Mereen, you have Vic, Barristan, Dany and Tyrion as POV. Not to mention important support characters like Jorah, Moqorro and Daario. All those stories would need to be addressed. Dany will need a host of supporting Dothraki characters to be introduced for her story.

Thats a lot of material to cover. Then you have to address all the meetings and greetings which could follow. Then you have to address all these moving pieces making there way towards Essos.

Really the Essos plot line is far too big. You could and GRRM probably has written an entire novels worth of material on this alone. Trimming and summarising that into only a third the size (if not less) would be an impossible undertaking. He’s probably writing good material and constantly having to chuck it away because it won’t fit in the book.

I respectfully disagree :))

I believe the Mereneese part indeed delayed ADWD but it has no effect on delay of TWOW simply because GRRM has written most of it for the draft of ADWD he submitted to the editor and it was at the insistence if the editor that he moved some chapters to TWOW. I believe these chapters include the entire Mereenese battle(s) and the return of Danny.  So all he had to write about Danny since the release of ADWD was chapters about conquer/liberation of Volantis and departure for Essos (I think that TWOW might end with her sailing west).

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On 5/12/2019 at 12:23 AM, Tyrion1991 said:

I remember reading that ADWD was delayed because GRRM had issues juggling the various POV gathered around Daenerys in Meereen. 

However, he never actually resolved the Mereen storyline. In fact he made it much more complicated by having Danerys go on a tangent with the Dothraki. Even if that’s, literally a three chapter deal (unlikely)and she fast travels to Mereen or Volantis.

You have, arguably the biggest battle in the series at Mereen, you have Vic, Barristan, Dany and Tyrion as POV. Not to mention important support characters like Jorah, Moqorro and Daario. All those stories would need to be addressed. Dany will need a host of supporting Dothraki characters to be introduced for her story.

Thats a lot of material to cover. Then you have to address all the meetings and greetings which could follow. Then you have to address all these moving pieces making there way towards Essos.

Really the Essos plot line is far too big. You could and GRRM probably has written an entire novels worth of material on this alone. Trimming and summarising that into only a third the size (if not less) would be an impossible undertaking. He’s probably writing good material and constantly having to chuck it away because it won’t fit in the book.

The reason the story is delayed is because GRRM has a lot of distractions and has clearly lost passion for writing the story.

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GRRM has had other passions going on for the last several years but maybe with the tv show ending, he will have a passion to write his version of the story.  I can hope but I am not holding my breath.

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On 5/13/2019 at 9:46 PM, sifth said:

To be honest I've pretty much forgot most of the people in both Stannis and the Bolton camps, along with the names of the people trying to destroy Meereen right now.

No kidding! I found it next to impossible to keep Ash Nazg Thrakatulûk separate from Agh Burzum-Ishi Krimpatul in my head.

Which one was it that Dany married again?  (:->

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On 5/13/2019 at 1:54 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

No way

I don't think the Daenerys ecosystem is the reason for the delay for Winds. I think the delay comes from the northern theater: the Bolton/Baratheon battle for Winterfell; the warring factions at Castle Black; Jon Snow's death, afterlife, resurrection; the journeys of Davos and Sansa; Bran's inevitable interference in all of the above, etc.

I think the single biggest issue with the northern theater delay is the timing.

Westeros is actually quite simple

Stannis wins the North and, ironically, the Ironborn, gaining him two(2) yes TWO unreasonably strong war and merchant fleets

The Freys get attacked by damned near everybody, as the Vale joins in the fighting in order to "help" the Crown put down the violence in the Riverlands, finally rooting out most of the Brotherhood without Banners and crushing the remains of Riverlander resistance and pretentions of Kingmaking

The Reach suffers a devastating defeat at the hands of Euron and now cannot sit idly by and commit supportive mop up forces here and there, and now must spend real blood and money in the fight, all while having their economy devastated by the Ironborn naval supremacy preventing food exports

This has a knock on effect with Dorne, but only minimally, as Dorne just sources its food elsewhere

Winters get harsher and the effects start to truly be felt forcing a, heh, freeze in the action

Westeros is devastated by its two main agricultural exporters being flattened, burned or hampered immediately preceeding a winter, and the civil war is still not concluded, Stannis Baratheon in a position of naval supremacy but low on manpower, with a possible Shireen Baratheon and Robyn Arryn marriage to solve that last bit, and the Westerosi heartlands just now restabilized with the Westerland low on manpower and the Riverlands depleted of it.

All while Dany is slowly conquering Essos OR is forced across the continent and the sea because fuck all good reasoning and sensible story telling, time for dragons and shit

.

Oh and the Tyrell's very close to abandoning the Iron Throne entirely, being forced to deploy forces to slap fAegon's shit in, and supress the Faith Militant and secure the Reach against the Ironborn

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Assuming that Dany will be in Westeros by the end of TWOW, I'm hoping that means that ADOS will be easier for George to write, by virtue of the characters all being in close proximity again. I don't want to jinx it, since I still have a hard time seeing how he'll conclude the series in a matter of only two books, but I do think that converging plotlines could help with the writing process.

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Frankly, I think Martin hates writing ASoIaF now. There are a million other things he'd rather do with his time, so he procrastinates and even when he can make himself sit and write it turns out poorly because he doesn't have any passion for it anymore. So most of the time when he sits to write he's scrapping whatever work he got done the last time he sat to write.

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I think Jon dying was/is the problem. Not that he can't resurrect him but he put himself into another Mereneese knot. Things need to keep moving on but at the same time Jon needs to come back and I would assume he spends about half the books dead, if he comes back sooner it will seem weird (I assume).

So now you have to have Stannis fight the battle in the north, Jon come back to life, people to be like WTH, why is he alive, deal with the traitors at the Wall, get him to I assume lead the north and catch up with everyone else and team up with them to kill WWs and then deal with whatever issues at the throne that is going on. There isn't a ton of time left to do all of that. I think killing Jon was a huge mistake (unless there was a super important reason for him to die).

I also think there is just way too much story to be told for two more books. I don't see how (if we even get that far) that a dream of spring isn't split into two books.

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She’s my bet for biggest in-world reason. 

Think there’s dozens of other reasons both in-world and in real life, but juggling all those names, places, lore, history, logic, etc of an area that has little to do with the bulk of the rest of the story must be a nightmare. And it only gets more difficult as time passes.

Not to mention the overly complex plot that requires more time to pass than all the other plot lines will allow for. 

If it was me and her show ending is in fact the plan, I would have no motivation whatsoever to write her arc. Seems like a ton of extra work for no real payoff. 

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I don't think the Dany storyline is the reason for the delay in ADwD. (It was, obviously, for ADwD, largely because GRRM was negligent on his timekeeping. He was hazy and lazy on all matters of time and distance because, well, he's an English major who doesn't like doing math. It came back to bite him in the ass.)

Dany's storyline in the books will be fundamentally different than in the show for one simple reason - she won't go back to Meereen.

D&D decided to treat Dany the same way they treated Bran - Bran would be the only Stark warg, Dany would be the only significant dragonrider. ASoIaF will have multiple dragonriders, one of which will take care of Meereen.  Dany will go to Vaes Dothrak, then straight to Pentos, picking up the khalasars along the way. She will be able to coordinate with Baristan via glass candle, with the help of Quaithe and Marwin.

The likely cause of delay would be Bran's storyline. He is the most difficult POV for GRRM to write, but must play a major role in TWoW, since he will need to cover both the rise of magic and the true history of the Others.

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The simplest choice would have been to allow Kevan to live and stabilize Westeros outside of the North, and then do a long summation type story where months and years get skipped at a time, exclusively in Essos. With Kevan and Varys having a simple discussion about how Tywins plans guaranteed that the North would persist in a civil war throughout the winter and defang the North for 50 years. and cut out fAegon entirely.

 

 

But nah, grrm went with maximum bloat. .....well that isnt fair compared to, iirc, the Sword of Truth, but still he added in fAegon, and is obsessed with concluding everything all at once. So yeah.

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