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starklover

the starks

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Posted (edited)

does anyone  think that the starks are going to take the throne as a pack?

Edited by starklover

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No. Firstly, because Arya will scamper off into the forest after she does whatever it is she's doing.

Bran is barely human anymore, and if he was going to help he probably should have done something by now.

Jon and Sansa will have separate fates, I feel, now that she went behind his back. 

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Posted (edited)

0% chance of that happening.

Arya: Has no desire to be a noble or ruler.

Bran: He's not Bran (and therefor not a Stark), he's the 3ER. The 3ER is also utterly useless and doesn't care about mankind or anything really.

Sansa: Any ruling seat would be in the South and there is no way you would get her to permanently stay there. She also has no desire for the Iron Throne or something similar.

Jon: Not a Stark, as he keeps reminding us over and over. Just recently shed his Stark-ness completely by ditching Ghost.

So technically we have only 2 Starks left (Sansa/Arya) and they aren't going to be a ruling duo nor do anything to become that.

Edited by Mystical

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Mystical said:

 

Jon: Not a Stark, as he keeps reminding us over and over. Just recently shed his Stark-ness completely by ditching Ghost.

 

Jon looks like more Stark than any of his siblings (others look like Tully), he is raised as a Stark by Ned Stark, even Theon was struggling with his Stark side, you can't be serious about Jon.

There is no way Jon would forget about the Starks and be Targaryen for the rest of his life.

As for ''ditching'' Ghost, it's not ditching it, Ghost is wounded heavily, he cares for that beast which is why he is leaving it to Tormund, that poor thing would definitely die due to his wounds in the South if he took it with him.

Edited by Erkan12

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1 hour ago, Mystical said:

Sansa: Any ruling seat would be in the South and there is no way you would get her to permanently stay there. She also has no desire for the Iron Throne or something similar.

 

Have we been watching the same show? Sansa clearly wants to be in power, and BTW she is actually doing pretty good with the power she has, she was not happy when the northern lords chose Jon to be king, not happy when Dany is announced as her queen. She would have shrieked with joy over being named Queen in the North more than seeing a batch of fresh lemon cakes.

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47 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

Jon looks like more Stark than any of his siblings (others look like Tully), he is raised as a Stark by Ned Stark, even Theon was struggling with his Stark side, you can't be serious about Jon.

Why can't I be serious? I can only work with what's on screen. And Jon keeps saying over and over that he isn't a Stark. What does his look have to do with it? Or who raised him? He, last Season, told Theon that he didn't have to chose. He can be a Greyjoy and a Stark. Jon however keeps saying he isn't a Stark. If he doesn't want to be one or sees himself as one, fine with me.

50 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

As for ''ditching'' Ghost, it's not ditching it, Ghost is wounded heavily, he cares for that beast which is why he is leaving it to Tormund, that poor thing would definitely die due to his wounds in the South if he took it with him.

It's not a temporary arrangement. He literally gave Ghost up for good. And he most certainly ditched him. Didn't even give his most loyal companion a freaking hug. And if Jon is such a Stark, why not leave Ghost with the Starks? It's the ultimate F U to the Starks and any supposed Starkness Jon has.

9 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Have we been watching the same show?

We probably are. We just apparently differ in understanding the question the OP asked. Did you even read it before you replied to me? The question was about the Stark Pack taking the throne. That's the question I answered.

12 minutes ago, dbunting said:

she was not happy when the northern lords chose Jon to be king

Where was that on the screen? When he looked at her and she smiled at him? Sansa's issues with Jon ruling were only in the context of his safety and that she wants him to be smart in his decisions. Nowhere was it ever shown or said that she wasn't happy with him being chosen King.

15 minutes ago, dbunting said:

She would have shrieked with joy over being named Queen in the North more than seeing a batch of fresh lemon cakes.

Maybe we are watching different shows. If you think later Seasons Sansa would shriek about anything then you must have seen a different show.

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7 minutes ago, Mystical said:

We probably are. We just apparently differ in understanding the question the OP asked. Did you even read it before you replied to me? The question was about the Stark Pack taking the throne. That's the question I answered.

Where was that on the screen? When he looked at her and she smiled at him? Sansa's issues with Jon ruling were only in the context of his safety and that she wants him to be smart in his decisions. Nowhere was it ever shown or said that she wasn't happy with him being chosen King.

Maybe we are watching different shows. If you think later Seasons Sansa would shriek about anything then you must have seen a different show.

1, I did read the OP and it asked about Starks and the throne. You said Sansa would want no part of ruling, see your post quoted below. The Sansa I have been seeing clearly wants to rule / be in power. Arya saw the same thing and called her out on it immediately. Saying how Sansa is betraying Jon by allowing the other lords to bad mouth him while he was away.

 

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

Sansa:  She also has no desire for the Iron Throne or something similar.

 

2. See my comment about Arya calling her out for it and undermining Jon.

3. C'mon, mentioning lemon cakes should be a clear sign of that line being somewhat comedic.

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1 minute ago, Mystical said:

Why can't I be serious? I can only work with what's on screen. And Jon keeps saying over and over that he isn't a Stark. What does his look have to do with it? Or who raised him? He, last Season, told Theon that he didn't have to chose. He can be a Greyjoy and a Stark. Jon however keeps saying he isn't a Stark. If he doesn't want to be one or sees himself as one, fine with me.

It's not a temporary arrangement. He literally gave Ghost up for good. And he most certainly ditched him. Didn't even give his most loyal companion a freaking hug. And if Jon is such a Stark, why not leave Ghost with the Starks? It's the ultimate F U to the Starks and any supposed Starkness Jon has.

 

Only in name he isn't Stark. Which is what he was saying. He looks like a Stark, he acts like a Stark, he thinks like a Stark, he has Stark blood.

Unless this thread is only about the legal family name, then Jon is a Targaryen. But if it's not about that, Jon is more Stark than Sansa and Arya combined.

So everyone he left behind in the North means that he ditched all of them? :D It's not like he is traveling to South with everyone, but only leaving Ghost behind, he left behind many important people for him, such as Samwell Tarly.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, dbunting said:

Have we been watching the same show? Sansa clearly wants to be in power, and BTW she is actually doing pretty good with the power she has, she was not happy when the northern lords chose Jon to be king, not happy when Dany is announced as her queen. She would have shrieked with joy over being named Queen in the North more than seeing a batch of fresh lemon cakes.

We have been.  Sansa has shown no desire for the Iron Throne.  Queen of the North has nothing to do with the Iron Throne other than being independent of it and/or keeping the IT from meddling in Northern politics.  At this time (S8, ep4) Sansa appears to be done with the South.

Edited by Tywin Tytosson

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I cant see it. Once Jon finds out that Sansa betrayed his trust, I don't think he will be able to stomach being around her. My number one theory for Jon right now is that he goes North to be with the wildlings and just never returns. No offense to show Jon, but the only talent he actually has is that he's a good fighter, which is basically the only thing you really need to be good at when in wildling culture. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, dbunting said:

The Sansa I have been seeing clearly wants to rule / be in power. Arya saw the same thing and called her out on it immediately. Saying how Sansa is betraying Jon by allowing the other lords to bad mouth him while he was away.

As Lady of Winterfell. Which is her goddamn RIGHT. Sansa has made no moves to become Queen in the North or Warden of the North. So where is your evidence? Arya's POV which is informed by her own biases? No thanks, I will go with what was actually on screen. And that was Sansa immediately pointing out that Bran is LoW and she didn't make a fuss about it. And she refused the Lords who wanted to make her Queen. And I can't believe that Sansa letting the Lords vent their frustrations is now a 'betrayal'. Guess she should have taken Arya's advice and cut everyone's head off. Not like that would have started a war right there or anything.

12 hours ago, dbunting said:

2. See my comment about Arya calling her out for it and undermining Jon.

See what I wrote above that directly contradicts that. And I listed actual things that happened. While you are using a character bias to prove your point.

Edited by Mystical

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Arya isn't gonna rule anything because she doesn't want too she made that clear. Bran is now the three eyed raven so again no.

 

So that leaves jon and sansa. I don't see jon forgiving sansa after she broke her word to him like that. She did it for self serving reasons and he will know it. I see jon telling sansa to stay away. Sansa might become warden of the north but given how she has acted towards dany I don't even see that. I see jon either marrying dany or going north to be with the wildlings where he feel accepted and isn't gonna be used to be put in power. If he doesn't marry dany I don't see him staying in the south at all.

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3 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I cant see it. Once Jon finds out that Sansa betrayed his trust, I don't think he will be able to stomach being around her.

That's not Jon's character.  Jon forgives. 

3 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

My number one theory for Jon right now is that he goes North to be with the wildlings and just never returns. No offense to show Jon, but the only talent he actually has is that he's a good fighter, which is basically the only thing you really need to be good at when in wildling culture. 

I agree with this.  :)

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Just now, Tywin Tytosson said:

That's not Jon's character.  Jon forgives. 

I agree with this.  :)

I don't think jon would forgive her for this. Or at least not be able to stand being in her presence.

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6 hours ago, Ser Graymax said:

The only one that wants power is Sansa but Jon is the only one the 7 Kingdoms would follow. 

Sansa wants power insofar to protect herself and her family (the Starks).  So that she and they can be safe and have the potential to be happy.

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5 hours ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

We have been.  Sansa has shown no desire for the Iron Throne.  Queen of the North has nothing to do with the Iron Throne other than being independent of it and/or keeping the IT from meddling in Northern politics.  At this time (S8, ep4) Sansa appears to be done with the South.

You skipped a very important part that I quoted(twice) and was replying to.  It was Iron Throne, or anything similar to that.  This was my point, she does want something similar to that

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I cant see it. Once Jon finds out that Sansa betrayed his trust, I don't think he will be able to stomach being around her. My number one theory for Jon right now is that he goes North to be with the wildlings and just never returns. No offense to show Jon, but the only talent he actually has is that he's a good fighter, which is basically the only thing you really need to be good at when in wildling culture. 

I would argue that Jon has other talents, as in keeping his word, being unbelievably honest, his war/fighting reputation, and his personal reputation.  As Tormund pointed out, people believe in Jon, they would follow Jon, and he would get the 'popular' vote. 

 

I agree completely with your idea that Jon simply refuses any crown, and returns up North, where he was happy.  As the fighting gets dirtier for the iron throne, Jon turns out to be too pure (as the driven snow?) to make people fear him (Cersei), break oaths (Sansa), or burn people alive (Dany).  He has no place in this game, and wants no place, yet he has the purest claim.   Pretty sure we are supposed to learn something from this.

Edited by lakin1013

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

Arya isn't gonna rule anything because she doesn't want too she made that clear. Bran is now the three eyed raven so again no.

 

So that leaves jon and sansa. I don't see jon forgiving sansa after she broke her word to him like that.

He will.  He has forgiven everyone else who has done him him wrong, shy of outright killing him. (and Ser Alliser and company were a special case.  he couldn't let them live)

 

Quote

She did it for self serving reasons and he will know it. I see jon telling sansa to stay away.

Disagree.

Theon sacked Winterfell for self serving reasons and was forgiven.

Sansa did not do anything remotely close to that.

Quote

Sansa might become warden of the north but given how she has acted towards dany I don't even see that.

She will be.  Either Wardeness or Queen of the North.  If Dany ends up on the throne, she cannot alienate the North by not confirming Sansa and the Starks in their old position.  If she tries to attaint Sansa or the Starks, the North declares its independence again.  With Vale and maybe Riverlands support.

Jon would likely allow Sansa to be Wardeness of the North.

 

Quote

I see jon either marrying dany or going north to be with the wildlings where he feel accepted and isn't gonna be used to be put in power. If he doesn't marry dany I don't see him staying in the south at all.

Yeah.  Without Dany, Jon likely heads north.

Though he could assume the crown because its his duty.

Edited by Tywin Tytosson

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30 minutes ago, Mystical said:

As Lady of Winterfell. Which is her goddamn RIGHT. Sansa has made no moves to become Queen in the North or Warden of the North. So where is your evidence? Arya's POV which is informed by her own biases? No thanks, I will go with what was actually on screen. And that was Sansa immediately pointing out that Bran is LoW and she didn't make a fuss about it. And she refused the Lords who wanted to make her Queen. And I can't believe that Sansa letting the Lords vent their frustrations is now a 'betrayal'. Guess she should have taken Arya's advice and cut everyone's head off. Not like that would have started a war right there or anything.

See what I wrote above that directly contradicts that. And I listed actual things that happened. While you are using a character bias to prove your point.

If Bran has not legally relinquished his inheritance than no it is inot hers by rights. If he has, it is.

 

I do not think Sansa is doing a bad job but aside from getting the 2,000 (maybe more?) valemen under Baelish/Royce what exactly has she done?  Where the hell is the rest of the Vale anyways?

 

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