ummester Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 According to Cerie's death prophecy - 'And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.' If we take valonqar to mean little brother we currently have many converging on Cersie Jamie - her little brother Tyrion - Jamie's little brother Euron - Balon's little brother Sandor - Gregor's little brother If we expand valonqar to mean sibling we also have Dany - little sister to two older brothers Arya - little sister to a whole pack of dead wolves Are there any more? Does anyone think the valonqar prophecy will mean anything in show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicPen Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 This is the show forum, they don't care about any of that. Dumb and Dumber only care about whats COOLZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Last checked only 4 dead wolves does not mean the whole pack is dead. Bran even though creepy now is alive there is Sans a Ary a and DragonWolf Jon. Jon in since is little brother to Robb stark just not by blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkan12 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Jaime isn't really a little brother, they were twins. And more importantly; ''And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.'' Jaime has only one hand. My guess is; It's either Sandor, Tyrion or Euron. But not sure how Tyrion will get close to Cersei, especially in a time of siege, even if there is a chance to assassinate, Tyrion isn't really a good choice to assassinate anyone. I am guessing that Sandor and Arya will swap enemies during the siege, after realizing Sandor can't take down the Mountain (probably because Gregor is now a zombie) only Arya and her special dagger could take him down, and Arya will do it only if Sandor kills Cersei in her place. Or Euron kills her for the Iron Throne, that's another guess. But prophecy also mentions Cersei cries before she dies, since all of her children are dead, the only one thing that can make her cry is death of Jaime. Sandor or Euron kills Jaime first, then they chokes her to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Other Wolf Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, Erkan12 said: Jaime isn't really a little brother It is mentioned, I believe more than once, that she was born first. Hence, little brother. 15 minutes ago, Erkan12 said: Jaime has only one hand. When somebody gets a prosthetic they still refer to it as theirs. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkan12 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just now, the Other Wolf said: It is mentioned, I believe more than once, that she was born first. Hence, little brother. When somebody gets a prosthetic they still refer to it as theirs. Just saying. They are twins, not once I remember she is calling Jaime a little brother. Jaime can't choke anyone with a prosthetic hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pirtle Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Jaime isn't strangling Cersei with one hand. Tyrion's already strangled one woman to death, but I doubt he's going to get the chance to strangle another. Sandor's got much bigger fish to fry. I think we can discount Dany and Arya, at least if the prophecy matters, though they obviously both really want to kill Cersei. Euron's the one my money's on. If Jaime is coming to save Cersei, I can see Euron killing her just to spite him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 19 minutes ago, Erkan12 said: They are twins, not once I remember she is calling Jaime a little brother. That's why it would have been a surprising twist to read if the books had come out at a faster pace without giving people time to comb over every single word. Cersei sees Jaime almost as part of herself, while Tyrion is her wretched little brother, so it would be dramatic irony to have Jaime turn out to be the Valonqar. In the books there's several passages that state that Cersei was the first born twin; Cersei herself says that she was born first and Jaime followed her, holding on to her foot as they were born (similar to the biblical Isaac holding on to Esau's heel) and at some other point somebody says that Cersei would like the more gender equal, Dornish inheritance law, because under it, as Tywin's firstborn, she would have been his heir. So this, coupled with the frequent mentions of Golden Hands at various points makes an interpretation of Jaime as the Valonqar perfectly possible. However, on the show they cut out the Valonqar part of the prophecy and cut out or ignored pretty much all other prophecies as well so...who knows what happens there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argonath Diver Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Martin came up with the Valonquar prophecy, and in his world Euron still has Victarion and Aeron younger than him kicking around. I don't think it makes much sense for Maggy's prophecy to cover anyone in the world with an older sibling. Martin's no linguist, no was his Maggy, and I think it would be pretty ludicrous if Euron kills her and we can say "Ah, ah, ahh! He counts as a little brother to that one guy who got killed off in a plotline wholly irrelevant to the Lannisters!" It just seems exceedingly tenuous at best. I agree that in general, the DnD boys have pissed all over any of the subtleties that Martin wrote in. I think the eventual killer of Cersei will probably be whomever Martin hashed out, though. Perhaps by this point, Martin himself has started tossing away all these prophecies as well. If it's going to be a twist other than Occam's Razor Tyrion, it'll either be Jaime (definitely would be hard to wrap a golden hand around her pale throat, but Martin did go out of his way to mention him being just younger than Cersei), or perhaps Sandor as an extreme long shot. I suppose I could squint and see it being Arya as she's smaller than Sansa, and sticklers could assure us that High Valyrian does not use gender nomenclature, but boy is that ever a stretch for Maggy to make (and through her, Martin, and then the DnD boys). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Jamie has a golden hand, so two. The prophecy being about anyone's little brother would be dumb. It has to be Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deminelle Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Cersei gives birth to a shadow baby, and that baby will strangle her. The baby is valonqar to her previous children mentioned in the prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7th-key Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Totally crack, but "choke the the life out of you" could even refer to the baby -- not that attempted strangulation is an efficient method to cause miscarriage, but it is a trauma. Euron is the one who would hurt Cersei specifically because she lied about the baby being his. Anyway, regarding the book, I lean against the idea that THE Valonqar is just any little brother, and in the case that it ends up that the Valonqar is Jaime, I feel that the story needs to make it clear that he is not killing Cersei just as a scapegoat coz he's blaming her for all the bad deeds he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coconut God Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Are we talking books or show? Because the show didn't include the valonqar part of the prophecy, and as far as the books are concerned, I don't know why people keep discounting Victarion. My vote goes for him in the books, with Euron being at least partially responsible for her death in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Tytosson Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Skeletor said: Last checked only 4 dead wolves does not mean the whole pack is dead. Bran even though creepy now is alive there is Sans a Ary a and DragonWolf Jon. Jon in since is little brother to Robb stark just not by blood. I thought that Jon was older than Robb; i.e., Jon was the oldest of the 'Stark siblings'. Does he qualify as he youngest of Rhaegar's children? I think that he does. So Jon Aegon could be a Valonquar candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Tytosson Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Anthony Pirtle said: Jaime isn't strangling Cersei with one hand. Tyrion's already strangled one woman to death, but I doubt he's going to get the chance to strangle another. Sandor's got much bigger fish to fry. I think we can discount Dany and Arya, at least if the prophecy matters, though they obviously both really want to kill Cersei. Euron's the one my money's on. If Jaime is coming to save Cersei, I can see Euron killing her just to spite him. For the show, my money is on Euron also. Maybe Jamie kills Euron afterwards. Or Yara or Arya. Spoiler re. another potential candidate. Read at your own risk. And remember to put any comments re. it inside spoiler tags. Spoiler Way back when there were pics of Jon in KL with Cersei. Cersei's Kingsguard/Queensguard were present. Jon did not have Longclaw. As I mentioned above, Jon (Aegon) is the youngest of Rhaegar's children. So Jon may very well be the Valonquar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Graymax Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Jaime dies, Cersei weeps, Tyrion strangles. Fulfills the prophesy but Ill bet there is a twist somewhere just like any deal with the devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 I am wrong because Robb was conceived Kat and Ned s wedding night before going back to the war. It was before battle of the bells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkan12 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Robb is slightly older than Jon I guess, but ''little brother'' thing must be obvious I think, so Jon can't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pirtle Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, Erkan12 said: Robb is slightly older than Jon I guess, but ''little brother'' thing must be obvious I think, so Jon can't be. Jon isn't Robb's little brother. He's Rhaenys and Aegon's little brother. Don't ask me why Rhaegar wanted two boys named Aegon. It's above my paygrade to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Other Wolf Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Erkan12 said: They are twins, not once I remember she is calling Jaime a little brother. Telling me they are twins does not help your argument. You see I/we already knew that bit of information. Additionally, Cersei does need to call him little brother for it to be true. He is younger and a younger brother is a little brother. 8 hours ago, Erkan12 said: Jaime can't choke anyone with a prosthetic hand Why not? It does not take much to choke someone out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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