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[Spoilers] Episode 805 Discussion

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15 minutes ago, The One Who Kneels said:

Dany wasn't anywhere near Westeros at the time? Cersei's issues with the Faith were well known? Cersei seized the throne? Hot Pie in the Riverlands somewhere is well informed that Cersei blew up the Sept. Of course the people of King's Landing know who did it. 

Hot Pie is outside Cersei's sphere of influence for a start.

Take a look at how people refused to believe that the 'little green men' who invaded Crimea were Russian soldiers despite the obvious fact that they were. Some people continued to deny the obvious right up to the point where Putin admitted he had been lying.

People can be very stupid and they can spread what they know are lies for the sheer fun of feeling they are on the dictator's side. 

There will be enough people going round gaslighting the population of KL with memes saying 'Cersei! Cersei! Cersei!' that are supposed to dismiss people telling the truth about who blew up the sept as cranks.

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4 minutes ago, sifth said:

Alright, now explain Ramsay's madness to me. He's a guy who enjoyed taking people apart just for fun. I personally don't see a whole lot of reasoning in that.

Sadistic tendencies and a desperate need to want to win the love and affection of his father, another sadist who controls his urges a lot better? But even Ramsay doesn't kill pretty much anyone, no? Even he follows some sort of rationale.

Burning KL basically means killing yourself if you are a Targaryen.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

Did we see her give the order? No. It was most likely detonated by Drogons flames. 

Well sure it was detonated by the other fire. The point is that Cersei set it up to frame Dany by making the city burn super-bad. No reason to show the green otherwise. We'll find out in the last episode.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Bonkers, or simply cruel and terrible?

 

If someones personality changes overnight to the point where they were appalled by the rape and murder of women and children to randomly start burning a city filled with women and children after the city has surrendered. yeah I'd say that is a sign of someone that has severe mental problems.

Edited by darksellsword

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17 minutes ago, Timett sonof Timett is God said:

wow dragon fire is ridiculously overpowered.

Only in proportion to the needs of plot.

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1 minute ago, Forlong the Fat said:

The one thing in the episode that had a logical, not to mention hopeful, explanation, and you’re complaining?

i through it was the best thing in the episode by far. Sandor came far enough to save Arya from a path of misery, and she came far enough to let him. 

 

I found the Sandor/Arya interaction quite believable.  Maybe Arya might decide to marry Gendry and bring new life into the world instead of constantly trying to end it.  Or not...

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Jarl Halstein said:

The wildlings I can understand, and of course the Dothraki. It's not their country. But it's the Northmen's country. Some of them might loot, but there's no reason for them to go on an extreme mass murder of an entire city. When Robb Stark led them they never did that or showed any tendency in that direction.

Actually they did.

Brienne killed several northmen who had been raping and torturing civilians when she and Jaime were on their way back to King's Landing

Edited by Jabar of House Titan

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Just now, darksellsword said:

If someones personality changes overnight to the point where they were appalled by the rape and murder of women and children to randomly start burning a city filled with women and children after the city has surrendered. yeah I'd say that is a sign of someone that has severe mental problems.

I don’t think so. The wildfire was planted there by Aerys 20 years ago, and its simply been left there. Cersei really had no part in it sadly. 

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This is the exact same contrivance that was used for Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars EPIII to become Darth Vader: "We've run out of time to properly establish this character as a villain, so let's have him just murder a bunch of children for no reason to make sure the viewers know Vader is irredeemable and don't end up feeling sympathy for him in the overall story."

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6 minutes ago, taliefer said:

 

they showed her enjoying burning people alive and feeding them to her dragons in past seasons. they were just bad people, so it was overlooked.

 

i agree they butchered it tho. sadly i think if they had just given themselves a normal 10 episode season for 7 and 8, i think they could have done a better job. probably still woulda been not great overall, but this need to just get to the finish is the main reason for everything being as bad as it is imo.

They showed her enjoying it? I don't remember any monologues by Daenerys about how she loved to burn people. She dealt out justice as best she could and used her dragons as an intimidation tactic as well as a means of execution, it isn't related to madness

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2 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

I don’t think so. The wildfire was planted there by Aerys 20 years ago, and its simply been left there. Cersei really had no part in it sadly. 

I was referring to Daenerys not Cersei

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9 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

How? Not trying to be difficult--I'm really curious.

They are the only two main characters that are suitable for romance with each other. It's simple. There are no other romantic candidates for them.  And as I said, read the prophecy of bride of fire and a blue flower.

9 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

I do think they are retrofitting Nissa Nissa into the story.

It's just Nissa Nissa in a realistic manner for realistic fantasy.

14 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

But. . . how so if it's based on who Dany's attracted to? Martin's been showing us this from the beginning.

No, you have too few examples for output. A person may like more than one type.

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23 minutes ago, The One Who Kneels said:

Dany wasn't anywhere near Westeros at the time? Cersei's issues with the Faith were well known? Cersei seized the throne? Hot Pie in the Riverlands somewhere is well informed that Cersei blew up the Sept. Of course the people of King's Landing know who did it. 

I had a friend, now an acquaintance at Oxford who studied classics. He has no experience of studying science whatsoever, never showed the slightest interest in it. I was working on a doctorate in physics, he never once asked about my work.

These days he has a job for one of the numerous Koch funded propaganda factories that present themselves as academic institutions publishing non partisan policy studies. He specializes in telling lies about climate change. When you see a graph that has been cleverly edited to show the exact opposite of the truth, that is probably his work.

It is not difficult to show he is lying. Just follow the citations in any of his papers and you will quickly discover he is a liar. But people believe him because they want to and facts won't convince them otherwise. And very few people have the moral conscience to say to people like him that they see no reason to call people who lie for a living friends or treat them with anything other than contempt.

And of course, you do realize that GoT is all about climate change from start to finish. The WWs are an allegory of the real threat that we face..

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12 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I doubt that Dany will survive the next episode; the only question is who will kill her?

It's not a question. Of course Jon. Azor will kill his Nyssa.

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21 minutes ago, Jon Snow is a loser said:

 

In the show they decided to whitewash her character in earlier seasons & then let her turn evil in the end for no good reason & without proper build up. All for the sake of "shocking twist" & "subverting expectation". 

1

They literally never whitewashed her character in the earlier seasons.  Frankly, they added numerous scenes that gave her a darker image than what is in the books.

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Just now, Ilissa said:

It's not a question. Of course Jon. Azor will kill his Nyssa.

He is not Azor ahai, he is the prince that did nothing while his sisters saved him and the one that stabs the hero that apparently got injected with schizophrenia in season 8

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, hallam said:

Hot Pie is outside Cersei's sphere of influence for a start.

Take a look at how people refused to believe that the 'little green men' who invaded Crimea were Russian soldiers despite the obvious fact that they were. Some people continued to deny the obvious right up to the point where Putin admitted he had been lying.

People can be very stupid and they can spread what they know are lies for the sheer fun of feeling they are on the dictator's side. 

There will be enough people going round gaslighting the population of KL with memes saying 'Cersei! Cersei! Cersei!' that are supposed to dismiss people telling the truth about who blew up the sept as cranks.

No. There are no memes and Russian trolls in King's Landing. No one is googling "Who Blew up the Sept of Baelor?" or reading propaganda sheets or misleading graphs (most can't read or write). Even if Cersei were innocent of blowing up the Sept she would be immediately blamed by everyone because she's the shamed, incestous usurper queen with a zombie bodyguard about to be put on trial by the Faith who just seized the throne. The surviving supporters of the High Sparrow would be constantly preaching against her. The fact that she did it is clearly common knowledge. 

Edited by The One Who Kneels

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In defense of Dany, she's come to Westeros with the single goal of taking the Iron Throne. However, ever since arriving, she's been distracted with bad advise. She's lost her fleet, lost a dragon in the North, wasted time taking Casterly Rock for no real purpose, and lost her closest advisers and the bulk of her army defending Winterfell. After saving humanity, she was shown no real appreciation. Her advisers started plotting against her, and people seem to prefer Jon to take the throne. Losing trust of everyone seems to be pretty rational. So when she hears the bells, does it mean victory or a trap and yet another miscalculation? Was it Cercei surrendering or just some people ringing the bells? Does she think Tyrion is really on her side, or just trying to save his family? I think she just had enough and decided to follow the original plan and end it conclusively, although ruthlessly. 

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Wow, the last episode is the first one I've liked since season 5. It was fan servicey, but enjoyable. This was too- it was fun to see them finally do something dynamic and new with Dany going feral. I've complained about her actions for so many years, and now it makes sense. I can see how fans feel cheated though, because all those actions were accompanied by triumphant music.

I loved how much more meaningful this was than the Long Night. I know the Others are suppose to be the Real Threat as opposed to the squabbling in the Realms of Men, but I always preferred the political plotlines. Everything felt easy and contrived in the Long Night, but the sheer fact that Dany was wreaking destruction and Jon was made a fool of made this episode powerful. Arya seems to be less enamored of death than she once was. I hope she gets out of town and doesn't seek revenge.

I laughed out loud when Euron came out of the water. How many times was Jaime stabbed? He should not have been able to get to Cersei.

Their scenes together reminded me an awful lot of Jack's last scene in Titanic. It kind of makes sense that they would die together but it makes his moments with Brienne pretty pointless. 

That is the bravest horse of all time. Not at all spooked by fire, screaming crowds, and falling debris. 

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