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[Spoilers] Episode 805 Discussion

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

GRRM has said GOT is a faithful adaptation, that the ending would not be 'that' different for the main characters and that the show has the major beats.  So, this is to me wishful thinking. 

I think that while the major outlines of the ending will be the same the books will have the space and time to get you there within the characters. So that, when Danerys burns King's Landing, we will have seen her descent into madness so it won't be so incongruous. Similarly, there will be time for Arya to contemplate the meaning of revenge so her change of heart can be seen as a process.

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1 minute ago, Lontra said:

I think that while the major outlines of the ending will be the same the books will have the space and time to get you there within the characters. So that, when Danerys burns King's Landing, we will have seen her descent into madness so it won't be so incongruous. Similarly, there will be time for Arya to contemplate the meaning of revenge so her change of heart can be seen as a process.

Of course.  The show did a terrible job in setting up Dany to go full mad queen.  I doubt very much that Arya has much impact on the defeat of the Others because that's Jon and Dany's story, not her story.  Hopefully she lives through one more episode, but if so, it seems she gets a sad end, if she doesn't go back to Winterfell, her story of losing and then regaining her family will still end in loss.  Turning Jon into someone so dumb that even reviewers remark on how dumb he is was another poor choice for the show, because now, their two main 'heroic' characters are ruined, Jon Snow is too dumb to be king and Dany has gone crazy.  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

He doesn't really hint that, this is again wishful thinking, he indicates that for the secondary characters their endings may be different, to take this to mean that Dany's ending will be different to me is not reasonable, shifting out pieces of the plot isn't the same as changing the ending for 1/2 main characters in the story. The showrunners and Martin have always said that the ending will be mostly the same.  He may not be that happy with the series, since they totally fucked up Dany going mad among other things, but that doesn't mean that this isn't still his storyline.  

He clearly says that he hasn t seen the scripts for this season. And that he hopes the endings will be similar. It is in a recent interview...

And for exemple, looking at sansa. Given that it appears that she will control the vale do you think she will also control the north in the end? I have no idea how they can reconcile book and show sansa's ending...

Then bran. Are people realy sure that bran will leave the cave? because I would say it doesn t really sound realistic at this point...

Edited by divica

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1 minute ago, divica said:

He clearly says that he hasn t seen the scripts for this season. And that he hopes the endings will be similar. It is in a recent interview...

And for exemple, looking at sansa. Given that it appears that she will control the vale do you think she will also control the north in the end? I have no idea how they can recocile book and show sansa's ending...

Then bran. Are peple realy sure that bran will leave the cave? because I would say it doesn t really sound realistic at this point...

Sansa will rule the North.  That's her ending in both mediums.  Obviously how she gets there will be different.  Lord Arynn is still alive in both books and show, so there is no reason to think she will rule the Vale, but she could.

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This may be super obvious to everyone else...but, were we supposed to understand that Varys was trying to have Daenerys poisoned, at the beginning of the episode?  I'll have to rewatch; that is the feeling I got, but maybe I read too much into it.  

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And now she can add "queen of the ashes" to her tediously long list of titles... too bad Miss Sandy isn't there to introduce her anymore...

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Want a summary ? Don't think you'll get a better summary than this.

''Dragon burning things'' - The Episode.

Seriously, what a boring and predictable episode. So many deaths, didn't care about a single one (well maybe Sandor a bit). Thought Arya died a couple times, but nope. Them Superpowers yo. WTF has Jon done really all season ? Except give that moronic look and be a submissive ''B''. Grow a spine Jon, ffs. Embarrassing King. Take some damn notes from Aragorn. I think this episode is worse than The Long Night....they pulled off the impossible. No decent fight, just the entire episode a CGI dragon burning things without running out of gas apparently, non stop for the entirity of the episode. The Dany going mad queen is sooooo forced and was so predictable from episode 4. All the leaks for this episode came true as well. Battle of the Bastards is still my fav battle episode, proper battles. This wasn't even a battle, just a girl on a dragon who won it all by herself. Just like episode 3.

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

Sansa will rule the North.  That's her ending in both mediums.  Obviously how she gets there will be different.  Lord Arynn is still alive in both books and show, so there is no reason to think she will rule the Vale, but she could.

There is no reason for sansa to rule the north. At most her husband will rule the north and I don t see the northners sudenly acepting a valeman as their liege lord. And I don t see how sansa can bring the vale into the northern story without marrying someone influential...

And whoever is king won t let her control de north and the vale.

So you just have 2 starks that at the moment seem to have diferent fates in the show and books.

And the probability of cersei controling the IT until the end also seems pretty low. We all know that the people would ahve rebelled and expeled her from the city...

Tyrion will want to know about tysha… I have no idea how she will influence him… And he won t be a saint in the books...

On the whole you are almost saying that only jon, danny and arya will have the same ending...

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6 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

This may be super obvious to everyone else...but, were we supposed to understand that Varys was trying to have Daenerys poisoned, at the beginning of the episode?  I'll have to rewatch; that is the feeling I got, but maybe I read too much into it.  

To me it was obvious.

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One other thought on the smaller details - I was kind of surprised that Cersei apparently was in fact still pregnant.  I guess that means that all those moments where she wobbled on tears or looked sad and distant were about Jaime abandoning her/being alone, rather than sadness over a lost baby. 

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2 minutes ago, divica said:

There is no reason for sansa to rule the north. At most her husband will rule the north and I don t see the northners sudenly acepting a valeman as their liege lord. And I don t see how sansa can bring the vale into the northern story without marrying someone influential...

And whoever is king won t let her control de north and the vale.

So you just have 2 starks that at the moment seem to have diferent fates in the show and books.

And the probability of cersei controling the IT until the end also seems pretty low. We all know that the people would ahve rebelled and expeled her from the city...

Tyrion will want to know about tysha… I have no idea how she will influence him… And he won t be a saint in the books...

On the whole you are almost saying that only jon, danny and arya will have the same ending...

The main characters:  Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Jamie, Cersei, Arya, Sansa and Bran will have the same ending.

Sansa will rule the North.  Jon will rebuild the NW, Cersei and Jamie are dead, Dany is mad and will die, Arya will either die or leave Westeros, Bran is the 3eyed raven, Tyrion will stay in KL and be part of the ruling council.

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11 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

This may be super obvious to everyone else...but, were we supposed to understand that Varys was trying to have Daenerys poisoned, at the beginning of the episode?  I'll have to rewatch; that is the feeling I got, but maybe I read too much into it.  

That was my takeaway. Actually, I wish Dany had executed Martha too. That could have led to her believing that even children are not innocent. In turn that could have led to her justification (to herself) of the massacre.

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4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

The main characters:  Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Jamie, Cersei, Arya, Sansa and Bran will have the same ending.

Sansa will rule the North.  Jon will rebuild the NW, Cersei and Jamie are dead, Dany is mad and will die, Arya will either die or leave Westeros, Bran is the 3eyed raven, Tyrion will stay in KL and be part of the ruling council.

I dont like that.

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7 minutes ago, King Roberts beard said:

So following on from the Starbucks cup....... apparently Jaime grew his hand back as well.

Where did you see that? I kept looking for that because it would mean that some Faceless Man had replaced him.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Oakenfist said:

Wow, I'm not even a Dany fan but the way they made her turn mad is completely unbelievable and contrived. 

She literally lost everything around her she cared about...two of her "children", Missandei, Jorah, had to kill Varys after he betrayed her, Jon betrayed her by divulging his secret, Tyrion betrayed her by freeing Jamie, etc etc etc.  Jon rebuking her love was the final straw.  Daeny has always solved her problems by fire and blood, or at least wanted to and been talked down by her advisors.

Edited by Arya's Sideboob

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8 minutes ago, nara said:

That was my takeaway. Actually, I wish Dany had executed Martha too. That could have led to her believing that even children are not innocent. In turn that could have led to her justification (to herself) of the massacre.

You may still get your wish.

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5 minutes ago, divica said:

I dont like that.

Ha, yeah, me neither, it's not much sweet with the bitter, but it seems pretty clear to me that this is the ending George gave them, and the broad strokes of his own story.  Bran may never leave the far North, that would be my guess, because the show was so clumsy at how they had his powers not used for anything, that it is probable he never leaves the North so his powers won't be available for people to pull up a chair and chat with him.  Jamie and Cersei's deaths I would assume at least could play out very differently, more close to the prophecy and a better end for Jamie.  But, all in all, it seems like that's the ending.

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12 hours ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

So why was Cersei upset about not getting the elephants?  How was she planning to use them?  I guess we will never find out.

Because Elephants were the closest thing to a Metropolitan Fire Brigade back in those days.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Ha, yeah, me neither, it's not much sweet with the bitter, but it seems pretty clear to me that this is the ending George gave them, and the broad strokes of his own story.  Bran may never leave the far North, that would be my guess, because the show was so clumsy at how they had his powers not used for anything, that it is probable he never leaves the North so his powers won't be available for people to pull up a chair and chat with him.  Jamie and Cersei's deaths I would assume at least could play out very differently, more close to the prophecy and a better end for Jamie.  But, all in all, it seems like that's the ending.

Not only that, but we have bran saying he can t be the lord of winterfell and having no personality. The show simply doesn t use him for anything...

So faegon will end up as king in the books? Because he is kind of the only available character...

edit: And jon joining the NW just bugs me. His whole story is about learning to be a leader and defeat the others. Then he achieves both of his objectives and ends up in the NW where his story started and is the worst place in westeros where he won t even have anyhting to do anymore...

Edited by divica

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