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[Spoilers] Episode 805 Discussion

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2 minutes ago, divica said:

Not only that, but we have bran saying he can t be the lord of winterfell and having no personality. The show simply doesn t use him for anything...

So faegon will end up as king in the books? Because he is kind of the only available character...

Jon becomes King. And disbands the Iron Throne before taking the Black.

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It's hard to feel immersed or entertained when 1 episode you see Dragons being incredibly underpowered and worthless and the next episode you see them incredibly overpowered and invincible.

Can someone explain the ending of this episode ? Besides Bran sending a magical horse. Why did we get a 5 minute Arya slow mo scene that didn't really mean anything besides show the aftermath and her fear ? Wouldn't that have been way more impactful if it was Jon who was looking at the dead children and women in the aftermath to build up for whatever they're trying to do with the Targs next episode ? Yeah Jon had seen innocent die around him but it was fairly brief, a 5 min slow mo at the end from his perspective would have nailed the severity of their clash, much more. But whatever.

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2 minutes ago, divica said:

Not only that, but we have bran saying he can t be the lord of winterfell and having no personality. The show simply doesn t use him for anything...

So faegon will end up as king in the books? Because he is kind of the only available character...

They did a poor job w/his story.  But if they'd kept him in the North that would have been pretty boring, some guy connected to a weirwood tree who sees things but can't make much of an impact on anything, so I can see why they put him in Winterfell, they just did a poor job because it makes no sense that no one consulted him.

I'm not sure on Aegon, he could lose to Cersei and Euron or vice versa.  Euron is an end game character, so maybe Cersei does team up with him, and Aegon goes down early, and Dany will face Euron and his dragon horn, which is how the other dragon(s) will die.

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2 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Jon becomes King. And disbands the Iron Throne before taking the Black.

But ending the IT isn t properly good. Westeros is better with all kingdoms United than with them divided...

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1 minute ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

It's hard to feel immersed or entertained when 1 episode you see Dragons being incredibly underpowered and worthless and the next episode you see them incredibly overpowered and invincible.

Can someone explain the ending of this episode ? Besides Bran sending a magical horse. Why did we get a 5 minute Arya slow mo scene that didn't really mean anything besides show the aftermath and her fear ? Wouldn't that have been way more impactful if it was Jon who was looking at the dead children and women in the aftermath to build up for whatever they're trying to do with the Targs next episode ? Yeah Jon had seen innocent die around him but it was fairly brief, a 5 min slow mo at the end from his perspective would have nailed the severity of their clash, much more. But whatever.

These dimwit Showrunners think they are artists. That was the purpose of the horse. They think it is artistic in some way. Meanwhile it is just dumb.

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Just now, divica said:

But ending the IT isn t properly good. Westeros is better with all kingdoms United than with them divided...

It will be ruled by a Great Council, representatives from each of the 7 kingdoms.  That's the only way it makes sense, starting and ending with an absolute monarchy would be an odd choice, especially for someone like GRRM.

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2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

They did a poor job w/his story.  But if they'd kept him in the North that would have been pretty boring, some guy connected to a weirwood tree who sees things but can't make much of an impact on anything, so I can see why they put him in Winterfell, they just did a poor job because it makes no sense that no one consulted him.

I'm not sure on Aegon, he could lose to Cersei and Euron or vice versa.  Euron is an end game character, so maybe Cersei does team up with him, and Aegon goes down early, and Dany will face Euron and his dragon horn, which is how the other dragon(s) will die.

But you start making those scenarios and the end game of the characters seem pretty diferent in the show and books. 

I just never imagined something so sad… bah

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

It will be ruled by a Great Council, representatives from each of the 7 kingdoms.  That's the only way it makes sense, starting and ending with an absolute monarchy would be an odd choice, especially for someone like GRRM.

But we already have a small council. I don tthink how having representatives of the 7 kingdoms would change the power of the king… Unless he only has veto power. But then he wouldn t really be king...

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

It will be ruled by a Great Council, representatives from each of the 7 kingdoms.  That's the only way it makes sense, starting and ending with an absolute monarchy would be an odd choice, especially for someone like GRRM.

But the Seven Kingdoms technically weren't ruled by an absolute centralized monarchy. It was all decentralized and feudal. In a true absolute monarchy, the monarch's armies are the only armies.

3 minutes ago, divica said:

But ending the IT isn t properly good. Westeros is better with all kingdoms United than with them divided...

That's very true. And it's probably bittersweet ending that is likely to make it into the books. Westeros is a much better place united than divided. But the TV show doesn't have the time nor the talent pool to explore that reality so it'll be rushed in a sad, shameful way.

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

It will be ruled by a Great Council, representatives from each of the 7 kingdoms.  That's the only way it makes sense, starting and ending with an absolute monarchy would be an odd choice, especially for someone like GRRM.

Martin isn’t writing a story about bringing democracy to a feudal society. That’s just the Showrunners idiot idea.

Martin writes about power and the people who use it. The Hundred Years War didn’t end with the monarchy ending in England. It ended with a new dynasty taking power.

So there is no imperative for feudalism to end in the books.

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I am just at a loss for the episode. Cool so we watched Dany sort of become the villain, that's what it's been about the whole time. Bran is useless. And probably she will be betrayed now, and yeah some sort of democracy put in place. This show dug so deep, and the ending feels shallow. White walkers, not much explanation, I thought we'd get more background after the war. 

 

I might be biased but I was pulling for Dany and thought she'd do the right thing. In her defense, every time she was merciful it would usually backfire. 

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Originally I asked... Just a few little nagging thoughts i had about Varys.. why did Varys take off his rings when he got 'arrested'? Was there some significance to the rings? Who was he writing to? Does he have yet another co-conspiritor?

 

3 hours ago, Gala said:

I think he has and it is, probably, Sansa.

Except the letter was detailing Jon's origin and existence. That information came to Varys indirectly from Sansa so they'd be no reason to write it if the note was going to her. There has to be someone else.

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54 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

Definitely, Daenerys starting burning everything first, then he threw the spear.  But killing everybody was definitely what Grey Worm wanted to do!  I think him and D were of a similar mind to make everyone pay. 

He did look like he was having a major internal struggle and just kind of made a snap decision though. I will have to rewatch as well.

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1 minute ago, Rory Snow said:
 

Originally I asked... Just a few little nagging thoughts i had about Varys.. why did Varys take off his rings when he got 'arrested'? Was there some significance to the rings? Who was he writing to? Does he have yet another co-conspiritor?

 

Except the letter was detailing Jon's origin and existence. That information came to Varys indirectly from Sansa so they'd be no reason to write it if the note was going to her. There has to be someone else.

I think the takeaway is that Varys was writing multiple letters to spread the word about Jon’s claim to the throne, presumably to gather support for him to challenge Dany.

Not sure about the significance of the rings.  Maybe he just knew he was to be executed and wanted to remove his valuables first?

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4 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Martin isn’t writing a story about bringing democracy to a feudal society. That’s just the Showrunners idiot idea.

Martin writes about power and the people who use it. The Hundred Years War didn’t end with the monarchy ending in England. It ended with a new dynasty taking power.

So there is no imperative for feudalism to end in the books.

Well, it either ends with Jon on the IT or no IT.  Since the show has gone out of it's way to rob him of his intelligence and his heroic story, I suspect that he will never sit the IT in the end.  The wheel is broken, but not in the way Dany envisioned. 

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4 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

These dimwit Showrunners think they are artists. That was the purpose of the horse. They think it is artistic in some way. Meanwhile it is just dumb.

It really was. At first when the slow mo started and the camera was focused in on Arya's face I thought , maybe, maybe she had a fatal wound on her stomach area ? Not that it would've stopped her, but I assumed since this scene was the end of the episode, that there was something coming up, a cliffhanger, a big reveal or moment but nope. It really was a pointless scene. Like you said, trying to be artistic without any clear direction or substance.

It was all just professor X sending Wolverine a magical uber. I'm sure Wolvie would have made it home without that magical uber. Nothing can stop this Wolvie.

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3 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Not sure about the significance of the rings.  Maybe he just knew he was to be executed and wanted to remove his valuables first?

This was my impression.  I'm not sure that it meant anything more than that Varys knew he was going to die for what he was doing, but he thought it was so important, he did it anyway.

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1 minute ago, Red Dragon10 said:

This was my impression.  I'm not sure that it meant anything more than that Varys knew he was going to die for what he was doing, but he thought it was so important, he did it anyway.

It means that the raven messages he sent out to the lords of Westeros proclaiming Jon not Dany the Targaryen heir can still be compared with his signet ring for authenticity even after his death by dragonfire.

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