[Spoilers] Episode 805 Discussion

[Cas Stark]

4 minutes ago, Nic. said:

The set up was terrible, the story was terrible leading up to this episode, but i have to say the episode was really damn good.  

 

Yeah, i agree with this, if I ignore that Dany going mad was poorly set up, the battle scenes were spectacular.  I thought Cleganebowl went on too long and didn't like the ending for Jamie and Cersei, but overall, I can say I was entertained much more than I was irritated.

[LucyMormont]

18 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Bingo. Now you see. 

It's her only solution to anything. Ever.

But it's not a solution here; she attacks the fleet, and that's great. She attacks the scorpions, great. She opens a way to her armies in the ground to enter the city, again great. All very acceptable.

Then,  the city surrendered, and after that she goes inmediately against the common people?? Nope, sorry. Nothing in her previous story was an indication for this. 

[Bear Claw]

28 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Starks are always loyal to their family. What did you expect him to do, disobey orders? Kill Dany? By the time he saw how things were going there was nothing he could do to prevent what happened. He tried to stop the sacking of the city from the ground. He couldn't do anything about what Dany was doing from on high. Again, what did you expect him to do?

Listen to his sister for one thing.

[Lady Lovisa]

3 minutes ago, robasp2 said:

An unburnt horse at the right place at the right time.

Talk about a convenient plot device. Lol

There is a theory flying around the forums that the horse was sent by Bran. 

There was a shot of birds flying around the Red Keep. It could be Bran's 'warged birds brigade' lol. I am convinced the theory might be true.

[Bran Snow]

13 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

In the books it's clear.

In the show, I've been afraid they'd have Dany and Jon have pretty, pretty babies and lots of dragons and wolves.

Very grateful they didn't do that.

I want Jon to have pretty, pretty babies with Val from the books.

[Lady Darkness]

The white horse that came to Arya at the end , seems very similar to Stricklands white horse they fell at the start ! As it’s re playing  here I looked up and saw the white horse fall and was wondering why show it so closely , then I was like oh maybe it’s that horse and nothing to do either magical powers 

[Remember]

Yes there is blood lust during and after battle and people do horrendous things. Yes, the Romans may have burned Carthage. But Danny wants to rule this City. Rule these people.

Yes I can get her being angry, and know she's had some anger tendencies shown throughout the show. But burning the City of people that she wanted to rule was madness. Plain and simple. She was the one that told Yara the iron born would do no more reaving and raping under her rule. Sure, blow up the red keep to kill Cersei for everything she's done. But hundreds of thousands of people and the entire infrastructure of the capital is mad! And to think there will be no consequences to this is crazy. That army at parade attention in the final episode preview might as well be planning to march to the Westerlands, the Vale, the Reach, and the North to show her force and pacify the rest of the continent under her TYRANNY.

Oh, and to find places for the refugees... And a new seat to rule from!

[TheValonqarThatWasAzorAhai]

Maybe it’s easier to kill a dragon that doesn’t have a rider?

Anyone else notice what Dany called Grey Worm when they were on Dragonstone?  I’m guessing “Torgo Nudho” is Grey Worm in Valaryian.

[Shierashiera]

So am I the only one who thought that it was odd that Sandor's most important farewell was with Arya instead of Sansa?

[Cas Stark]

Just now, Danelle said:

So am I the only one who thought that it was odd that Sandor's most important farewell was with Arya instead of Sansa?

He's had a lot more story with Arya in the show and in the books, so I wasn't really surprised.

[HellasLEAF]

I do get ignoring the bells and flexing some muscle, destroying some of the city.  She needed to truly show power and have fear to rule even in victory. 

But it felt a littler ridiculous that she was torching everything for what seemed like an hour straight.  Just wasn't believable.

That was the biggest mistake in what was a pretty epic episode.  

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

"I am the man who killed Jaime Lannister" - BumFinger 2019

 

[Shierashiera]

4 minutes ago, LucyMormont said:

 

Then,  the city surrendered, and after that she goes inmediately against the common people?? Nope, sorry. Nothing in her previous story was an indication for this. 

I suppose they wanted to show how corrupted she has become by power?And grief? And Targaryen madness? 

[TNTW]

The brilliant Tyrion sent his beloved brother to his death, to try to save his sister who has caused him nothing but misery. That part was ugh. But when Tyrion talked about ringing the bells, saving the people, even if it cost him his life, that was better.

[The Last Storm]

The snow we thought we saw in Danys vision was rlly ash. Pretty sweet

[robasp2]

3 minutes ago, Danelle said:

So am I the only one who thought that it was odd that Sandor's most important farewell was with Arya instead of Sansa?

Even I was not convinced by Sandor's speech.

Wonder how Arya suddenly had a change of plans.

[Raksha 2014]

28 minutes ago, Hodor&Bran said:

All through human history after almost every war the conquerors burn and sack the cities.  This does NOT mean Dany is mad!!!!  It's called revenge.  Rome literally ground Carthage into the ground when they conquered them.  They poured salt into the soil and plowed it under where Carthage stood.  

I asked my Husband who fought in Vietnam and killed people what he thought after watching this.  His answer was "You have know idea what it's like in war and yes that's what happens".  He also said "war is madness and it makes you mad".  My Husband is 75 years old and he still has nightmares from Vietnam.

 

But didn't Dany agree to cease hostilities if the bells denoting surrender were rung?  Agreed in front of her Hand and her ally (Tyrion and Jon) as well as her general (Grey Worm)?  Was it her plan all along; or did she just get angry when the bells were rung and decided to "burn them all" just like dear old Dad wanted to do?

[Chloe.a.thomson]

7 minutes ago, joaozinm said:

but here you are again...

Yep. 

It's so close to the end now, I feel like most people have accepted that it is what is it.

[Shierashiera]

3 minutes ago, HellasLEAF said:

 

But it felt a littler ridiculous that she was torching everything for what seemed like an hour straight.  Just wasn't believable.

By everything she also destroyed her home, the place where Targs lived and ruled for centuries.

[BlackLightning]

17 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Ah but she now has only ashes to be queen over. That's why I changed it.

Actually, no; she still has the rest of the continent. King's Landing is a blip on the radar of Westerosi history. The Stark family is over 8,000 years old. Oldtown is probably older than that. King's Landing has only been around 300 years.

But, in any case, no: she's not called the Queen of Ashes for a reason.

Stormborn, the Unburnt, the Bride of Fire, the Mother of Dragons, the Daughter of Death, the Slayer of Lies, the Breaker of Chains, etc.

These all make sense. It all points to fire and blood. Which naturally means being a harbinger of death and destruction but also points towards rebirth, recreation

It's like Daenerys is Shiva. There are three main gods: there is Brahma, the creator and the designer; Vishnu, the preserver and the maintainer; and then there is Shiva the destroyer and the transformer.

It's all a circle. Daenerys Stormborn is destined to break the wheel and bring things to an end so that things can begin anew or begin the right way. The Others, who are likely not evil at all, or their leader -- if they have one -- are probably going to be her counterpart.

Something about Planetos is very wrong and it's going to get fixed before the series is up. Daenerys, probably a pawn in the game of thrones played by the gods like R'hllor, the Great Other, that one Dothraki god, the Drowned God, the God of Many Faces, etc, has her part to play in it all.

Queen of Ashes implies that she is meant to rule over and dominate the death and the rebirth process. No, she's probably not that important.

I'm not saying she'll be viewed as a hero in the end but she will give birth to a new age. So technically she will still be a hero.

But the official term would be anti-hero for Daenerys.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Jabar of House Titan