[Spoilers] Episode 805 Discussion

[The One Who Kneels]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

I take the criticisms, but in and of itself, I thought the episode was very entertaining.

Daenerys' motive for carrying out mass murder was made plain, when she spoke from the throne.  The people of Kings Landing, unlike those of Meereen, made no attempt to resist Cersei.  Therefore, she judges them guilty.  That's a horrific attitude, but one that plenty of conquerors have adopted.

Which frankly just compounds the stupid because realistically the people of King's Landing (and most every lord in Westeros for that matter) should've been rioting against Cersei from the moment she blew up the Sept and usurped the throne. They didn't because the writers didn't want them to. 

[Kaguya]

39 minutes ago, divica said:

what were cersei's plans for danny in 8.1?

This is why I was convinced Dany was going to be assassinated prior to this battle. 

 

D&D plot armour I guess 

[hallam]

10 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Someone must have went on a long bathroom break during the Jaime/Tyrion scene.

Of course Tyrion is telling Jamie to save their sister. But that isn't why he is letting Jamie go. That is the reason he is giving for Jamie to tell Cersei to give up.

Tyrion is guilty because he has caused the death of Varys and he is completing what Varys set out to do.

[Tyri0n]

24 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

There were green wildfire explosions amidst the explosions from Drogon.  Some of this was a setup by Cersei, but we won't learn that until Bran tells everybody next episode.

I completely agree that the green wildfire explosions were proof of a more nefarious Cersei plan. I thought that the surrender bell was a trap and didn’t trust it if they let their guard down. I hated seeing innocent people die but we know from past experience that Cersei does not care about innocent people either. 

[C.T. Phipps]

1 minute ago, The One Who Kneels said:

Which frankly just compounds the stupid because realistically the people of King's Landing (and most every lord in Westeros for that matter) should've been rioting against Cersei from the moment she blew up the Sept and usurped the throne. They didn't because the writers didn't want them to. 

There's been like 5 or 6 riots against the Lannisters.

* The baby murder

* Joffrey killing the people who threw a cow pie

* The Church revolt

They may just be rioted out.

[The One Who Kneels]

Just now, C.T. Phipps said:

There's been like 5 or 6 riots against the Lannisters.

* The baby murder

* Joffrey killing the people who threw a cow pie

* The Church revolt

They may just be rioted out.

That's certainly a more reasonable explanation than will ever be presented in the show. 

[hallam]

1 minute ago, The One Who Kneels said:

Which frankly just compounds the stupid because realistically the people of King's Landing (and most every lord in Westeros for that matter) should've been rioting against Cersei from the moment she blew up the Sept and usurped the throne. They didn't because the writers didn't want them to. 

Why would they believe Cersei did it? All Cersei needs is to tell them that Danny blew up the sept and many would believe them. That is exactly how propaganda works in the real world. 

[Adegon]

What was up with the soldiers from the north going all civilian murdery?

[Areisius]

Dany had the dream of KL burnt to the ground and everybody is surprised that KL is burnt to the ground? LMAO!

Edited May 13, 2019 by Areisius

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, Ilissa said:

Do not lie to yourself. They promised a common ending with the books. This is it. Mad Queen burns the King's Landing. It's terrible, but it's true.

They are filthy liars. But I don't have issue with Dany burning KL. She can and should do it ... if there is a proper reason for that. There is none in this show.

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Daenerys' motive for carrying out mass murder was made plain, when she spoke from the throne.  The people of Kings Landing, unlike those of Meereen, made no attempt to resist Cersei.  Therefore, she judges them guilty.  That's a horrific attitude, but one that plenty of conquerors have adopted.

If that happened in the books it would be harsh, but it would be essentially just emulating the Conqueror's grand deeds. KL would just be another Harrenhal. Surely there was many a servant or child in Harrenhal which wasn't there because he or she was a die-hard loyalist of Black Harren. Yet in war innocents die.

If there is ever a scenario where thousands of people stand with a person like Cersei - or actually Cersei - in a compatible scenario then by the standards of George's shitty world - and also by the Hitler and Churchill's rationale on bombing civilian population centers - this wouldn't even be a war crime.

[Nightwish]

9 minutes ago, Ilissa said:

Do not lie to yourself. They promised a common ending with the books. This is it. Mad Queen burns the King's Landing. It's terrible, but it's true.

I really don't want to read the other two books. I so regret that many years ago I bought the first book. I would never do that if I knew the end.

I agree. It was a waste of time for me too. 

[The One Who Kneels]

2 minutes ago, hallam said:

Why would they believe Cersei did it? All Cersei needs is to tell them that Danny blew up the sept and many would believe them. That is exactly how propaganda works in the real world. 

Dany wasn't anywhere near Westeros at the time? Cersei's issues with the Faith were well known? Cersei seized the throne? Hot Pie in the Riverlands somewhere is well informed that Cersei blew up the Sept. Of course the people of King's Landing know who did it. 

[mcbigski]

48 minutes ago, Sonoftheharpie said:

So is next week the episode we finally put Sweet Robin on the iron throne?

No ser.  It will be a Targaryen.  The fundamental quality of fire is that it is hot.  Hot Pie is clearly Rheagar's oldest son.

42 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

So why was Cersei upset about not getting the elephants?  How was she planning to use them?  I guess we will never find out.

Catherine the Great style perhaps.

36 minutes ago, Lady Darkness said:

The white horse that came to Arya at the end , seems very similar to Stricklands white horse they fell at the start ! As it’s re playing  here I looked up and saw the white horse fall and was wondering why show it so closely , then I was like oh maybe it’s that horse and nothing to do either magical powers 

Rewatched the first few episodes of Rome this weekend.  So it totally reminded me of the horse Octavian brought to Gaul.  Ah Rome, where sure the Titus Pullo as ancient Forrest Gump got a bit overdone, but at least the character motivations were consistent.

[Kaguya]

4 minutes ago, Tyri0n said:

I completely agree that the green wildfire explosions were proof of a more nefarious Cersei plan. I thought that the surrender bell was a trap and didn’t trust it if they let their guard down. I hated seeing innocent people die but we know from past experience that Cersei does not care about innocent people either. 

No, the Spanish leaks said this could be the case, but it seems D&D completely nerfed Cersei this episode. It was all about Dany’s evil and nothing else. 

[BlackLightning]

2 minutes ago, Adegon said:

What was up with the soldiers from the north going all civilian murdery?

That's what happens when a city is sacked.

It's what they do.

Basically, they were following Grey Worm's lead.

Don't forget what the Northmen (and the Valemen too) had suffered due to Lannister rule. Between Ned Stark's capture and the slaughter of his household, the Battle of the Camps, the Battle of Whispering Wood, the Red Wedding, Bolton rule which was sponsored by the and the more recent abandonment to the White Walkers, they've taken unnecessary loss after unnecessary loss. The thirst for revenge against the Lannisters is probably what keeps them going.

1 minute ago, Areisius said:

Dany had the dream of KL burnt to the ground and everybody is surprised that KL is burnt to the ground? LMAO!

No one is surprised it was burnt to the ground.

We're surprised at the slapshod, half-baked writing job that caused it to burn to the ground.

[Timett sonof Timett is God]

still watching, but yep they should have offed dany while they had the chance.

also Jon will probably do the deed.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Timett sonof Timett is God

[Jarl Halstein]

12 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Daenerys' motive for carrying out mass murder was made plain, when she spoke from the throne.  The people of Kings Landing, unlike those of Meereen, made no attempt to resist Cersei.  Therefore, she judges them guilty.  That's a horrific attitude, but one that plenty of conquerors have adopted.

They just needed to give her a reason, but it was a bad one. She has ruled people, she should know the masses far better than this. Back in Essos they weren't always easy for her to control. Remember when she executed one of her loyal followers because he had killed a nobleman or two. She executed him in public and the people screamed in anger, and then they and the nobility hissed at each other.

So Dany knows that people will not always do exactly what she wants them to do - and she still doesn't kill them.

Really, if you have to lead a large group of people, as Dany has done, you get some perspective. She was always a good person, and there's no way a good person who has gained perspective from ruling would say "The masses in that city are garbage because they haven't revolted and thrown themselves on the Lannister swords on my behalf yet."

[BlackLightning]

So, can anyone explain to me why was Drogon so invincible in this episode when the poor thing was getting trashed in episode 3?

Add Viserion and Rhaegal to that too. According to the logic in this episode, zombie Viserion should have completely leveled Winterfell and killed Jon Snow easily.

[Timett sonof Timett is God]

wow dragon fire is ridiculously overpowered.

[Ilissa]

3 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

Right--but that doesn't mean Dany and Jon are romantic and like this.

Of course it's about love. It has always been obvious. Read about bride of fire prophecy. And the show confirmed it. Now he will kill her, as Azor killed Nyssa.

9 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

Dany and Jon in the books are attracted to VERY different people: Dany likes violent sociiopaths who kill and conquer. Jon's really not that guy.

It is absolutely far-fetched argument.