[Spoilers] Episode 805 Discussion

[Remember]

41 minutes ago, Rory Snow said:

Just a few little nagging thoughts i had about Varys.. why did Varys take off his rings when he got 'arrested'? Was there some significance to the rings? Who was he writing to? Does he have yet another co-conspiritor?

The rings are probably his signet seal for a letter he wrote, for the little girl they clunkily introduced to mail to Sansa or some other ally. 

[Lynn-Ann]

2 hours ago, Gelious said:

- Missandei's death

- Jorah's death

- Jon's origin

- The betrayal of Jon\Varys

- Sansa being Sansa

The sum of it all is the explanation. Not saying you should like it or believe it, but its the explanation anyway

I think the final straw was Jon's rejection, his obvious reluctance in showing any affection and intimacy towards her, perhaps?  

Edited May 13, 2019 by Lynn-Ann
Wording is better

[HellasLEAF]

Tyrian's continued compassion for Cersei is utter nonsense.

In fact there has been nothing smart or clever about his decisions the last two seasons.  

[taipan]

Just now, HellasLEAF said:

Tyrian's continued compassion for Cersei is utter nonsense.

In fact there has been nothing smart or clever about his decisions the last two seasons.  

I didn't see it as compassion, just as his last option to prevent a bloodbath

[TeethGrinder]

Visually stunning. The City burning is definitely from GRRM. This is where Dany goes, it's always been where Dany goes. Similar to my boy Stannis burning his daughter. They're tragic characters destined to break.

This season really should have been 10 episodes. Dany's turn just felt way too rushed. Hilariously Emilia Clarke actually plays a pretty good paranoid psychopath - We really should have seen more of it. It's hilarious how every part of this story could have been improved with even small additions. Like they could have had the dragon be stationary when shot last week to make it a little less ridiculous that they can suddenly go stealth mode. 

Euron was ridiculous from start to finish since introducing his character. They really shouldn't have bothered adding him. 

Arya turning back would have been pretty good if she hadn't already devolved into what Sandor's telling her to run from. This is a girl who murdered people, carved up their corpses and baked them into pies for revenge. Now she sees the light? LMAO. Also if Bran wasn't warging that horse then just get out of here.

Cleganebowl was so forced. That will not be in the books.

Jaime/Brienne stuff was so pointless with hindsight. Also him saying he doesn't care about the city he previously saved is just the worst line in the episode - He probably should have told people about the Wildfire too. I don't mind the death scene though, given the show wasn't really portraying Cersei as villainous or threatening at that point it was actually quite sad - It will be similar but different in the books. They didn't give Cersei enough this season but seeing her watch everything literally blow up in her face was quite amazing.

Tyrion really is the most incompetent guy in Westeros. Excellent judge of character he said. 

All in all the season has been a sloppy, sometimes nonsensical story producing some great moments. So yeah. Justice for Stannis.

Edited May 13, 2019 by TeethGrinder

[420faceless]

3 hours ago, DebL66 said:

I feel like Dany’s arc has been consistent.  She has made plenty of bad decisions, became increasingly full of herself, and is really nothing without her dragons.  

Some of the other characters, not so much.  I feel so disappointed in this series, it’s almost as bad as Lost.

Lost kept going.  This only kept going cause there was plot points but the writers were fairly clueless.

[Ilissa]

1 minute ago, Danelle said:

What makes you think that GRRM will follow the exact same path? I recall an interview a couple of years ago when he said that books and tv series have same endings but the path they follow is different.

I mean think of how different minor characters such as Euron and Missandei are in the show and yet how great and different their impact on both books and show. 

Mad Queen is obviously "same endings". And everything else is don't matter. Dany killed as many people as the Night King. Is that the point? Ice and fire are both dangerous? Jon and his is the song of ice and fire will stop both threats?

 

[Stark_in_Winterfell]

Did anyone find the fight between Jamie and Euron funny? Even before Euron's famous last comment, I was laughing. Then his smile and announcing as he dies, I killed Jamie Lannister was too much. Battle of the stupids. Euron is a great pirate but no more.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Stark_in_Winterfell

[Shierashiera]

13 minutes ago, Ilissa said:

Mad Queen is obviously "same endings". And everything else is don't matter. Dany killed as many people as the Night King. Is that the point? Ice and fire are both dangerous? Jon and his is the song of ice and fire will stop both threats?

 

Well, without having read books 6 and 7, it is hard to make a guess in regards to Dany's character development but judging from the development of Sansa and Jaime, the tv show took many liberties.

Sansa marrying Ramsay? Jaime abandoning Cersei only in the end of s7, even though Cersei did all those terrible things? Omitting Tysha? Ramsay killing his father and everything is ok? 

The development of certain characters and plotlines in the show is not consistent with what happens in the books. Usually in the books we get a faster, less detailed explanation. 

This is not necessarily a bad thing, the show is an adaptation after all but they do move too fast.

I was never a fan of the Dany the Mad Queen theory but now it is a possibility. I like to believe that GRRM will be more subtle when he describes her descent to madness, if indeed this is what happens. 

After all, how many children did Scarlett O'Hara have? 

 

[PetyrPunkinhead]

Worst thing about Daeny becoming the Mad Queen is that it means Cersei fucking won. She turned The Breaker of Chains into Cersei "Evil-Petty-Ass" Lannister. The green bursts of wildfyre throughout the city evoked how Cersei did the same exact thing to her enemies in S6 when she destroyed her enemies at the cost of innocent lives and the destruction of a part of King's Landing. It also reminded me of how Daeny's father's wishes for the Lannister sack of KL during Robert's Rebellion were being now being enacted by his daughter.

[Ras1983]

Lots of fair criticism about the writing and the various story arcs like Jaime/Cersi and Arya.

But, as per Dany, it's been hinted at from very early on in the books that Dany was going to crash and burn. Perhaps the show rushed her transformation a bit, but bloodlust is a real thing and it would have been cathartic for her to go on a destructive rampage considering what her quest for the throne has cost her. She initially lost her kingdom and family, her home, her brother, Khal Drogo and their son, she was betrayed by Jorah, by the slave masters, etc etc. She lost two of her dragons for crying out loud.

So she would have been running on pure emotion and adrenaline like many people would have had they been in her position.

One last point: "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely". That's exactly what happened to Dany when she heard those bells ringing.

 

 

[Ilissa]

1 minute ago, Danelle said:

I was never a fan of the Dany the Mad Queen theory but now it is a possibility. I like to believe that GRRM will be more subtle when he describes her descent to madness, if indeed this is what happens. 

But I love Dany so much. Even now. It ruined the whole story for me. I was ready for her heroic death. But not for this.

Never again in my life will I take a book from the unfinished cycle. This I swear. I could never love characters so much if I hadn’t thought about them for many years.

 

[Pinn]

Shock and awe!

[Simsuy]

3 hours ago, LucyMormont said:

But it's not a solution here; she attacks the fleet, and that's great. She attacks the scorpions, great. She opens a way to her armies in the ground to enter the city, again great. All very acceptable.

Then,  the city surrendered, and after that she goes inmediately against the common people?? Nope, sorry. Nothing in her previous story was an indication for this. 

She burned the slavers, she burned the tarlys and she burned the dothraki leaders. Everyone who crosses her gets burnt.

There has been multiple small hints of her hitting the breaking point or "going mad".

[Frances Bean Corbray]

Well.

We WERE warned....

 

[Shierashiera]

1 minute ago, Simsuy said:

She burned the slavers, she burned the tarlys and she burned the dothraki leaders. Everyone who crosses her gets burnt.

 

But the slavers were enemies who tortured innocents, the Tarlys questioned her claim and fought against her. The dothraki leaders expected her to remain with the rest of the widows, isolater.

The innocent citizens of KL were her subjects. The Red Keep was the palace that her ancestors had built. There is a difference. 

[Skills]

Let me guess....Jon speaks out against ber, she has him executed, and Arya kills Dany in revenge?

[Karlsmakinmusic]

Anyone else pick up on a possible Johnny Cash reference with Shadowfax there at the end. Behold a white horse?

Edited May 13, 2019 by Karlsmakinmusic

[Ras1983]

BTW, the Dany mad queen theory is old. Here's a thread about it on these forums from 2011:

It's definitely got precedent in the books. So yes, it totally fits in with her character

 

[Thor Odinson]

16 minutes ago, Simsuy said:

But the slavers were enemies who tortured innocents, the Tarlys questioned her claim and fought against her. The dothraki leaders expected her to remain with the rest of the widows, isolater.

The innocent citizens of KL were her subjects. The Red Keep was the palace that her ancestors had built. There is a difference. 

You don’t remember when she returned to Mereen and found it under siege, and her immediate reaction was to go burn Astapor and Yunkai? She wanted to burn two cities to the ground. And as bad as the Masters were, the population of both cities is primarily made up of slaves, which means that she would’ve been killing tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocent people. And yet she didn’t care, and the thought of how many innocent people she’d be killing didn’t cross her mind. If Tyrion hadn’t talked her out of it, she would’ve done it.

If she’s already shown a willingness to obliterate two cities and all the people within them, innocent and guilty alike, then why is it a surprise when she actually does it here?