Gianna Dorenberg Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 13 hours ago, makchamp said: It really couldn't get any worse than what we got. Haha that's what I said about episode 3. And here we are . kissdbyfire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 12 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said: She was angry that the bells of surrender meant that she wouldn't get to vent her wrath on the city. So she ignored them. No, the city will never accept her as monarch, and neither will the nobility. She's basically let her temper and poor thinking destroy what she most wanted. That's what her whole plot arc as been been throughout the whole series. It's what George is trying to show about power and so many other things. Her quest for the Iron Throne is over now. Danny could have let the civilians leave the city and take the golden company prisoner. She might need some more soldiers and they are sellswords after all. She didn't want the surrender, she wanted to burn the city. And as a result she is going to find the city impossible to govern. 12 hours ago, Areisius said: Great episode as over half the people I wanted dead died and Dany *$%^ them up! I'm happy! Only half? Is there anyone left alive at this point? Apart from Danny, there really isn't any villain left. Jon doesn't want the throne but is it now clear that he can't let Danny keep it. So Danny is going to die at either Jon's hand or Arya's. Of course the problem with Jon killing Danny is that he was only sent back by the Red God for a purpose and his time will be up once that purpose is complete. So Jon will die as soon as Danny is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Astrology isn't even pseudo-science. Its pseudo-mysticism at best. The star charts they use haven't been updated for centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValarMorghulis1990 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 13 hours ago, sweetsunray said: This was the most boring episode I saw... so 1 Arya being there was clearly for the POV, but barely worked. We already had that part with Jon imo. And that Weasel plotzee was too short. But death rode out on a pale mare, I guess. Cleganebowl was just nothing. I felt nothing, and then they even try to reuse the Oberon effect. And I felt nothing. Was glad Sandor decided to end the boring thing by jumping into a sea of fire with Clegane. No amount of rain of castamere heart strings can make me feel for Cersei, and Nikolai could not sell this thing. I can see Jaime returning to Cersei, but then they should have him separate much much earlier than he did. 4 episodes just wasn't enough. Was glad when FINALLY the buildings buried them. Sheesh, they cut have edited out 20 mins out of that episode at the very least. I'd say 'boring' was certainly one thing that this episode wasn't. CrypticWeirwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadco26 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 More poor writing to make things happen because the writers want them to, rather than because it makes sense in the context of the show. Dany was considering attacking despite the risk to civilians being used as human shields, not with the goal of killing civilians. But now she just burns everything including her own soldiers AFTER the victory was in hand because show says so. The show hit us over the head with the threat of Dany going mad with Varys and Tyrion's scheming, but none of her actual actions up to this point were any where close to lets randomly burn everything for no reason. Dany going mad could be an interesting and earned character arc, but the execution here was terrible. They could have even made it where she ignored her advisers and attacked the red keep and killed civilians as collateral damage to get what she wanted and that would have been enough. But they wanted to make her go full dark lord and just kill innocents to make it really bluntly obvious that she is the bad guy now. They could have had her burn the already surrendered Lannister soldiers and it would have been bad, but not strafe down civilians for no reason bad. Just think how easy she could have taken King's Landing when she first arrived in Westeros with 3 dragons and no ballista defense system if her dragon's breath can literally knock down the walls of the city. She removed the city's defenses in minutes with just Drogon with minimal civilian losses. Of course last week the ballista's get 3 long range hits on Rhaegal without Dany even seeing the ships first, and this week Dany used the invincibility cheat and takes out the entire fleet and city without a scratch. Why not have Rhaegal die during this type of attack instead of from a "surprise attack" from a fleet hiding behind a mountain. Have Missandei get killed by Cersei AFTER the bells have started ringing and have that set Dany off to attack the red keep and go after Cersei, killing innocents in the process. There are many ways a similar story line could be written in a more believable fashion. Jaime came back to die with Cersei, of course going invincible mode to make it to her after being run thru twice by Euron, who has always been a caricature. Like Littlefinger, Varys and Tyrion haven't done anything remotely clever since they ran out of book material. Arya doesn't even bother to use a disguise on her quest to kill Cersei, The Hound dies fighting Gregor in a meaningless fight. Jon can't control the men under his command, and has to kill one of his own to stop him from raping. Arya is set up as the obvious one to go after Dany now. I don't really care about any of these caricature versions of the characters any more. legba11, 7th-key and Lady Anna 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, hallam said: Astrology isn't even pseudo-science. Its pseudo-mysticism at best. The star charts they use haven't been updated for centuries. Technically they have. Which explains why Uranus and Neptune are part of the thing now. But you can say that about any personality test. The Myers-Briggs 16 personalities are astrology for people who graduated from college with business degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandorRogaine Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Kajjo said: It is unfair to downvote an episode that is well done, just because you don't like the storyline of GRRM. Agreed. Live. Laugh. Love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, ValarMorghulis1990 said: I'd say 'boring' was certainly one thing that this episode wasn't. The way that bullying works is that a person can raise their social status within certain social groups by being unpleasant or cruel to others. What I see a lot of in this group is people who want to raise their status by telling us what morons they think D&D are for producing the most successful television series in history. Insulting D&D and their supporters is their attempt to raise their social status by gaslighting everyone else into supporting their conclusion. It happens quite a lot in social media generally of course. This is a story about a boy and a girl, an army of zombies and three fire breathing dragons. Who on earth ever expected Checkoff or Shakespere? Come to that, Shakespere isn't exactly known for unimpeachable plot consistency or character motivations either. If you didn't spot the signs that Danny might turn out like Vicerion, you haven't been paying attention. just like people weren't paying attention when Shireen burned despite GRRM telling us it would happen in the very first chapter Shireen appears in. It is pretty obvious that there is a Night King in the books and that Arya kills him. Take careful note of the precise wording used in the reveal, 'we have known that Arya is going to be the one...'. Not 'we decided'. They didn't say GRRM told them but that means no more than they are not going to tread on the books if they don't need to. People could really do everyone a favor by not trying to make themselves look bigger by running down what is at the end of the day an entertainment. hokie3457 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said: Technically they have. Which explains why Uranus and Neptune are part of the thing now. But you can say that about any personality test. The Myers-Briggs 16 personalities are astrology for people who graduated from college with business degrees. Myers-Briggs is no more grounded in science than the decisions made by the sorting hat. I did a different one when I was with DEC. Fact is that you can learn many of the traits. They are not innate, they are learned. The Chairman role is very much a learned skill which is what Sandringham and West Point are for. There is some value to knowing categories because it is useful when assembling teams. I am not a completer-finisher unless I need to be. But I can assign people who are. The idea of the tests is that teams are supposed to work best with a balance of the skill types. But it doesn't work like that in real life because the plant group really enjoy working with each other and most will kick down to their secondary skills as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Snow Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) Could I have some baked children with that Cerseiburger? You know what, I'll have none of it, thank you very much. Tweedledee & Tweedledum exceeded themselves with some nice crisp quality writing once again!!! Edited May 13, 2019 by Han Snow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 31 minutes ago, hallam said: The way that bullying works is that a person can raise their social status within certain social groups by being unpleasant or cruel to others. What I see a lot of in this group is people who want to raise their status by telling us what morons they think D&D are for producing the most successful television series in history. Insulting D&D and their supporters is their attempt to raise their social status by gaslighting everyone else into supporting their conclusion. It happens quite a lot in social media generally of course. This is a story about a boy and a girl, an army of zombies and three fire breathing dragons. Who on earth ever expected Checkoff or Shakespere? Come to that, Shakespere isn't exactly known for unimpeachable plot consistency or character motivations either. If you didn't spot the signs that Danny might turn out like Vicerion, you haven't been paying attention. just like people weren't paying attention when Shireen burned despite GRRM telling us it would happen in the very first chapter Shireen appears in. It is pretty obvious that there is a Night King in the books and that Arya kills him. Take careful note of the precise wording used in the reveal, 'we have known that Arya is going to be the one...'. Not 'we decided'. They didn't say GRRM told them but that means no more than they are not going to tread on the books if they don't need to. People could really do everyone a favor by not trying to make themselves look bigger by running down what is at the end of the day an entertainment. Who is Vicerion? Hallam, I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. They literally said "we have known that Arya was going to be the one to kill the Night King three years ago (in 2016 during season 6)" right before saying "we wanted to subvert expectations." Their last meeting with GRRM was in 2012: that's when he told them the ending and the three big "Holy S---" moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick_nc1 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Really really struggling. What was once the best TV show EVER made due to the complex characters, machinations, redemptive arcs, grey actions etc etc has become just another....spectacle, a Michael Bay movie. All of the nuance has gone, its deeply upsetting. Characters doing strange things that either weren't built up enough, are totally out of character or simply dumb. Others surviving with thick layers of plot armour. Its so weak as to be laughable. I think the general population will likely enjoy the episode simply because to this generation anything 'epic' is amazing, even if it totally lacks any real depth. I guess DD just aren't as intelligent as Martin if this is the only way they could progress. I feel very sorry for Star Wars fans now, they will likely butcher the story of Revan and co next. legba11 and Han Snow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Snow Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Tadco26 said: The show hit us over the head with the threat of Dany going mad with Varys and Tyrion's scheming, but none of her actual actions up to this point were any where close to lets randomly burn everything for no reason. Dany going mad could be an interesting and earned character arc, but the execution here was terrible. Right on. The writing to get Dany from point A to point B was abysmal, atrocious, horrifyingly stupid and on par with what D&D have shown that they are capable of writing. I kid you not that I genuinely believe that tweedledums thought that Emilia Clarke showed she was going genocidal mad with her eyes. She looked at Varys and he just knew, he just knew she would burn the world down. That is the way those two do their writing. Edited May 13, 2019 by Han Snow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 41 minutes ago, hallam said: The way that bullying works is that a person can raise their social status within certain social groups by being unpleasant or cruel to others. What I see a lot of in this group is people who want to raise their status by telling us what morons they think D&D are for producing the most successful television series in history. Insulting D&D and their supporters is their attempt to raise their social status by gaslighting everyone else into supporting their conclusion. It happens quite a lot in social media generally of course. This is a story about a boy and a girl, an army of zombies and three fire breathing dragons. Who on earth ever expected Checkoff or Shakespere? Come to that, Shakespere isn't exactly known for unimpeachable plot consistency or character motivations either. If you didn't spot the signs that Danny might turn out like Vicerion, you haven't been paying attention. just like people weren't paying attention when Shireen burned despite GRRM telling us it would happen in the very first chapter Shireen appears in. It is pretty obvious that there is a Night King in the books and that Arya kills him. Take careful note of the precise wording used in the reveal, 'we have known that Arya is going to be the one...'. Not 'we decided'. They didn't say GRRM told them but that means no more than they are not going to tread on the books if they don't need to. People could really do everyone a favor by not trying to make themselves look bigger by running down what is at the end of the day an entertainment. I don't think it is bullying to express what you didn't like about the show - insulting others for their opinions is, which is what you are doing. Viserion is Dany's dragon. The one that got turned by the NK so I'm not sure what you are meaning by that but I certainly never saw anything for shadowed to indicate Daenerys would exhibit dragon like behavior, let alone that dragon in particular. Nor have I seen her exhibit any dragon like behaviors for that matter. Although to be fair I'm not sure what exactly would be dragon like behavior in a human. She can't breathe fire or fly. Maybe she roars really loud like Viserion? Idk. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that there is a NK in the books but what makes it "pretty obvious" that Arya will kill him? Certainly not D&D's statement because that makes it very clear they decided long after speaking to George that Arya would be the one. My biggest complaints about the show are not what happens but how it happens. I think that is most people's issue. The bad writing, plot holes, inconsistent characters, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 In isolation this was a 10/10 episode. The problem is that the characters' actions in this episode don't match their established personalities. Dany's red mist came out of nowhere, Tyrion and Varys are suddenly retarded, and Jaime is right back where he started in season 1. The only character that made sense was the Hound. Han Snow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive said: In isolation this was a 10/10 episode. Yes, it was. 2 minutes ago, WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive said: Dany's red mist came out of nowhere No, very many people expected it and discussed it long before the episode aired. 2 minutes ago, WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive said: Jaime is right back where he started in season 1. What you do for love. The circle closes. Very well. 3 minutes ago, WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive said: The only character that made sense was the Hound. Sandor/Arya was a great scene, one of the best of the show, two characters with important turning points in their arc. hokie3457 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Snow Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Kajjo said: It is unfair to downvote an episode that is well done, just because you don't like the storyline of GRRM. You may be correct, but that is life. One day you are chilling with your mom, playing with your toy horse, the next you are being burned alive by snap of the finger turned completely evil foreign Mad Queen you've never even heard of only a month before. I mean, this episode was so magnificently shot and directed. The cinematography is better then what Disney does with their plasticy superheroes. I liked Avengers Endgame, not because of its endless CGI but because of its decent writing. I hate this episode because the writing is so devoid of logic and reason that even the most gorgeous cinematography in the world can not salvage it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Han Snow said: this episode was so magnificently shot and directed. The cinematography is better then what Disney does with their plasticy superheroes. Yeah! It was stunning. 10/10. 2 minutes ago, Han Snow said: I hate this episode because the writing is so devoid of logic and reason that even the most gorgeous cinematography in the world can not salvage it. I don't think so. Daenerys reaction is not unexpected and the possibility has been discussed for ages. It is not an entirely new trait. So many people expected a Mad Queen ending. There are some shortcomings in telling the story and some minor issues (like too easily shooting down Rhaegal), but overall it is a very fine storyline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, Kajjo said: No, very many people expected it and discussed it long before the episode aired. Yeah I expected she would burn the city to win the war. What I didn't expect is her burning the city after she had already won. It makes no sense and goes against everything her character stands for. Ser Quork 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive said: Yeah I expected she would burn the city to win the war. What I didn't expect is her burning the city after she had already won. It makes no sense and goes against everything her character stands for. Not really, no. She reached a pivotal point where love didn't work and so "let it be fear". She snapped because she lost so much and no one was grateful. For me, this is a very nice episode and quite believable. hokie3457 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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