divica Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said: The last 20 minutes were just vanity shots of Maisie Williams’ emotive face very few people talk about how repetitive/boring most of the ep was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Direwolf Blitzer said: IIRC George confirmed Stannis will burn Shireen in the books. He did not. David and Dan were wary of more backlash after their genius idea of destroying Sansa Stark and turning her into Jeyne Poole. So they threw Martin under the bus in the Outside the Episode for 509 and said, “when George told us this”. So, two points here. One is, “when George told us Shireen would be burned alive”, it doesn’t necessarily mean that Stannis will do it. The second point is even more interesting IMO. People have been saying David and Dan didn’t really read the last two books, or, if they did, they didn’t understand anything. Like, they didn’t know/remember Sam is a PoV LOL. But further evidence is, has anyone who’s read the books ever doubted Shireen will be burned? Answer is, nope. The debate is always about who will do it. Will it be Stannis? Mel and Selyse? The Free Folk? But I have never seen anyone say it won’t happen. And yet, David and Dan claimed they were utterly shocked when Martin told them - again, that she will burn, not that Stannis will do it. And even if he does, it will have fuck all to do w/ how it happened in D&D’s version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris is my name Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ice Queen said: Her turn to madness has been a long time in coming. It did not just come out of nowhere. It's been there since the beginning. By this logic, almost every main character in the story would have the potential to suddenly flip a switch and become mad. 3 minutes ago, Ice Queen said: It's not that your expectations were subverted. It's that you were distracted by the glitter and not thinking about what she was doing and saying, or excusing her as somehow justified. I will remind you that Aerys was normal in his young years, too, and look what he became. Aside from telling me that instead of my expectations being subverted that my expectations were subverted , Aerys' situation was quite different: a) his madness was well documented over a long period b) his "burn them all" moment was an act of desperation as a way to immolate himself and the invaders c) after that immolation would be transformed into an actual dragon. This is an effective way to demonstrate madness, not "my friends are gone, the boy doesn't love me and his sister is mean to me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturno Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 What exactly prevented Dany from just flying DIRECTLY to the Red Keep, destroying it without a sweat? Almost no scorpion fired at her and they are only positioned along the outer walls, she could path through effortlessly. If she is angry towards Cersei why she never attacked her? She destroyed the Red Keep in like 5 minutes... why waste time burning random people in the street? If she was mad with rage what is the reason for Cersei not be the target of that rage? If I take this script to wipe my ass the writing will actually improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, divica said: very few people talk about how repetitive/boring most of the ep was. It was basically the Passion of the Christ: Torture Porn. And a lot of closeups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, divica said: very few people talk about how repetitive/boring most of the ep was. That's ANOTHER problem with this episode. It was super repetitive. If Daenerys has flown into a rage because of the bells, why wouldn't she destroy the belltower first? That's the most likely thing for any person who is flying off the handle....their trigger is number one on the priority list and then everything else comes after. Also, why would she be burning the same streets multiple times for hours....while not even making a direct hit on the Red Keep?! It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, divica said: But with anakin you understand his motivations and why he thinks he has to obey palpatine. Here the city just surrendered and danny decided to burn them to a crisp... Yes, absolutely, and Dany has no motivation except that she likes killing and is drunk on power. What she did was so outside the rules of engagement...it was an act of pure evil. The White Walkers should have won. In the end, it turns out that the greatest threat to us is...us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, Jabar of House Titan said: That's ANOTHER problem with this episode. It was super repetitive. If Daenerys has flown into a rage because of the bells, why wouldn't she destroy the belltower first? That's the most likely thing for any person who is flying off the handle....their trigger is number one on the priority list and then everything else comes after. Also, why would she be burning the same streets multiple times for hours....while not even making a direct hit on the Red Keep?! It makes no sense. Because she wanted Cersei to suffer and to make her watch as her realm burned as her death crept ever closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chris is my name said: By this logic, almost every main character in the story would have the potential to suddenly flip a switch and become mad.[/quote] Nice circular argument. Re-read the books and re-watch the show. You'll see. Quote Aside from telling me that instead of my expectations being subverted that my expectations were subverted , Aerys' situation was quite different: a) his madness was well documented over a long period b) his "burn them all" moment was an act of desperation as a way to immolate himself and the invaders c) after that immolation would be transformed into an actual dragon. This is an effective way to demonstrate madness, not "my friends are gone, the boy doesn't love me and his sister is mean to me." Daenerys' madness has been documented as well. Re-watch and re-read. Daenerys believes she is a dragon. Didn't you read the end of Dance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: He did not. David and Dan were wary of more backlash after their genius idea of destroying Sansa Stark and turning her into Jeyne Poole. So they threw Martin under the bus in the Outside the Episode for 509 and said, “when George told us this”. So, two points here. One is, “when George told us Shireen would be burned alive”, it doesn’t necessarily mean that Stannis will do it. The second point is even more interesting IMO. People have been saying David and Dan didn’t really read the last two books, or, if they did, they didn’t understand anything. Like, they didn’t know/remember Sam is a PoV LOL. But further evidence is, has anyone who’s read the books ever doubted Shireen will be burned? Answer is, nope. The debate is always about who will do it. Will it be Stannis? Mel and Selyse? The Free Folk? But I have never seen anyone say it won’t happen. And yet, David and Dan claimed they were utterly shocked when Martin told them - again, that she will burn, not that Stannis will do it. And even if he does, it will have fuck all to do w/ how it happened in D&D’s version. And that's another thing. I am still struggling to comprehend their decision to turn Sansa Stark into Jeyne Poole (thereby ruining the arc that they had written for her the previous season) when Sansa could either have: just stayed in the Vale and actually EARNED her stripes as a politician and gamemaster or been turned into Barbrey Dustin Why Jeyne Poole? What was with their infatuation with Ramsay Snow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Gotta say, as They strained and strained to get a Tristan and Isolde operatic tragedy out this pile of cardboard excrement, they got ... a gnat. Of cardboard. Did anybody feel a damned thing in that scene other than a faint sense of relief that 'this is over. what's next if anything?' Tristan was established in the medieval courtly Romance canon as a true martial hero. Isolde is established as a young and lovely innocent, who falls in love with her patient -- someone who has great skills of healing that she uses for good. They fall in love. It is gloriously Romantic / Tragic that they choose death together rather than leave Isolde in the clutches of a truly nasty fellow, who doesn't do good for anyone, and who is mad for getting as much wealth for himself by any means possible. Just on those grounds alone Jaime and Cersei characters are no Romance, and could never be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Ice Queen said: Yes, Daenerys believes she is a dragon. Just like Arya believes she is a wolf, Cersei believes she is a lion, Margaery believes she is a rose, Sandor believes Sansa is a bird and Aemon believes Tyrion is a giant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chris is my name said: Aerys' situation was quite different: a) his madness was well documented over a long period b) his "burn them all" moment was an act of desperation as a way to immolate himself and the invaders c) after that immolation would be transformed into an actual dragon. Also, (d) Aerys' madness might have given him insight into the Three Eyed Crow time-loop, and his "burn them all" was potentially a deranged reference to the future threat of the White Walkers. In this case, the White Walkers have been dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ice Queen said: Because she wanted Cersei to suffer and to make her watch as her realm burned as her death crept ever closer. That's nonsense. Everybody knows that Cersei doesn't care about people. I mean....Daenerys knows about the Sept right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris is my name Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Ice Queen said: Nice circular argument. Re-read the books and re-watch the show. You'll see. It's not circular at all, and please don't patronize me like that. Again, the execution is what is at issue here. I accept the "Mad Dany" hypothesis, I just don't feel it was properly executed on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, Jabar of House Titan said: Yes, Daenerys believes she is a dragon. Just like Arya believes she is a wolf, Cersei believes she is a lion, Margaery believes she is a rose, Sandor believes Sansa is a bird and Aemon believes Tyrion is a giant. Er, no, with the possible exception of Arya, because she's a warg. Daenerys is not a warg and the rest of them don't really believe they're any of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, Jabar of House Titan said: And that's another thing. I am still struggling to comprehend their decision to turn Sansa Stark into Jeyne Poole (thereby ruining the arc that they had written for her the previous season) when Sansa could either have: just stayed in the Vale and actually EARNED her stripes as a politician and gamemaster or been turned into Barbrey Dustin Why Jeyne Poole? What was with their infatuation with Ramsay Snow? Oh man, now you reminded me of the endless and nauseating torture porn Ramsay inflicted on Theon... it just went on and on and on... that was so, so bad. When was that, s3? As to the Sansa Poole switcheroo, wasn’t there an argument made that viewers wouldn’t care if it was a “nobody” being tortured and raped, and that if it’s Sansa it’s so much more poignant? Although I don’t remember who said that. Cogman, maybe? I fucking hate this show and all it’s done to virtually ALL the characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, Chris is my name said: It's not circular at all, and please don't patronize me like that. Again, the execution is what is at issue here. I accept the "Mad Dany" hypothesis, I just don't feel it was properly executed on the show. And that may be true--but it doesn't mean it wasn't always there, because it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorkem Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Daenerys Targaryen “Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men Protector of the Realm, Mother of Drogon, Pavlov’s dog” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Orphalesion said: That's nonsense. Everybody knows that Cersei doesn't care about people. I mean....Daenerys knows about the Sept right? Does she? Cersei was trapped in the keep and Dany knew it. She took her sweet old time getting there because it provoked the greatest amount of fear. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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