Rant & Rave without Repercussion: Burn It All Edition

[theladyinspring]

They really messed up by changing Jaime's storyline from the books. They screwed up the redemption arc subversion they were going for.

In the books he leaves Cersei years before this point, and he doesn't leave her because of a dishonorable decision on her part but because she cheated on their incestuous relationship. He was also fed up with being used and seeing another possibility of the man he could be by virtue of his travels with Brienne. He also leaves her at her lowest point. It's still possible George will write him going back to Cersei in the end because it doesn't work out, him trying to change. That's assuming Jaime's end at Cersei's side is the same of course.

But D&D have him stick by Cersei's side through everything, even the destruction of the Sept, willing even to fight a dragon for her reign, and making another baby with her. He doesn't care that Euron is around and openly flirting, he's not jealous, he's secure in the relationship. He only leaves because she finally crosses his moral event horizon by going back on her word to help save all of humanity. He still has too much honor, he knows he can do and be better, and he makes that choice. By delaying the choice to leave and be a better man for so long, it becomes a big hard line to cross.

So for him to come North, fight for his life and everyone else's against the Army of the Dead, consummate his relationship with Brienne, and then go back because he's "addicted"? That is a big writing mistake and it was handled very hamfistedly with him apparently being triggered by Sansa's offhand comment. It made no sense which is why so many thought he must be going to kill her after learning Daenerys lost another dragon. Cersei had crossed the line that matters most to him, and he reclaimed his honor. He had a long journey to Winterfell and didn't turn back. It makes no sense at all the way they did it and it's character assassination.

[BlackLightning]

20 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

Season 8 Continuity errors ranked in the order of stupidity

• 8 starbucks coffee cup
• 7 Jaimes sword hand regrowing while he hugs cersei
• 6  the accuracy of the giant crossbow ballistas
• 5  four legged Dragon sigil of house Targaryen
• 4  Daenerys forgetting about the Ironfleet
• 3  Christian iconography on buildings Drogon is blowing up
• 2  Bells meaning surrender and the city is under siege
• 1  Jaimes character redemption arc

The Starbucks coffee cup, the four-legged dragon sigil and Jaime's magical hand are minor issues that can be overlooked. Same goes for the Christian iconography.

Failing to explain the White Walker symbols and messages we have been seeing since episode 1 is an error that cannot be overlooked.

Failing to explain the nature of and the source of Dany's and Bran's magical superpowers is an error that cannot be overlooked.

But then, we are supposed to entrust them with rescuing the Star Wars series and producing a nuanced "what if the Confederacy won the Civil War" TV show.

What movie, comic book, video game, TV show or ancient myth that features people with powers fails to explains how people have such powers, why those people have those powers and no one else does, the limits (if any) of said powers and the purpose of said powers.

Somebody please tell me! What movie/comic book/TV show/video game/fable/myth does that? I'm dying to know!

What are we supposed to forget Daenerys can't be burnt or die of heat exhaustion or smoke inhalation? Are we supposed to shrug off both Bran's telepathic powers AND his timebending powers of omniscience?

[Count Balerion]

I was introduced to Preston's rant-reviews last season, and caught up with season 6 in shortorder.

I'd never even heard of Glidus until last week. Still waiting for him to skewer the episode.

(Yes, I'm so "down" about last season that I'm actually posting to this thread! And I've even given two 5s this season! I know what you're thinking: "DUDE. How can you give higher than a 1?" I'm a fairly merciful scorer, although I haven't awarded a 9 since season 5.)

[Dragons Are Real]

9 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

What movie, comic book, video game, TV show or ancient myth that features people with powers fails to explains how people have such powers, why those people have those powers and no one else does, the limits (if any) of said powers and the purpose of said powers.

Somebody please tell me! What movie/comic book/TV show/video game/fable/myth does that? I'm dying to know!

The Riddick movies.  Though they handle that a bazillion times better in that his character stays consistent throughout and you do know he comes from a different planet, they don't go into detail about what that really means.

You know, I need to revisit those movies.  They're like more fun, slightly darker Star Wars movies.

[Tyrek Lannister]

Rocks fell, everybody died.

The end.

[Corvinus85]

7 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

The Riddick movies.  Though they handle that a bazillion times better in that his character stays consistent throughout and you do know he comes from a different planet, they don't go into detail about what that really means.

The Chronicles of Riddick attempted to create a mythology, but the failure was in that the movie was poorly received by critics, and they really didn't have the budget to develop the mythos further. The 3rd movie pretty much went back to monster-killing Riddick.

[Azerate]

Can't believe what happened to Jaime in this show. Last episode when people were whining about him leaving Winterfell I thought everyone was confused because he is clearly going back to stop Cersei (and probably end up killing her). Turns out it was me who was the idiot. Kind of makes his whole character pointless and kills the moral of his story.

Lots of other ridiculousness that was already pointed out countless times, so I won't repeat the same things all over again I just want to say that while I agree the build up for the "mad queen" could have been better, I do have a feeling that a large group of people criticizing it are doing it because they didn't want this to happen. Some people are acting as if it was never hinted at or foreshadowed that she's going this way, and I'm sorry, but that's not the case. 

 

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I simply can't stand their smug attitude.  Sorry I had to say that.  They look and sound so annoying in the videos they do explaining the episodes.

[darksellsword]

2 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

The Chronicles of Riddick attempted to create a mythology, but the failure was in that the movie was poorly received by critics, and they really didn't have the budget to develop the mythos further. The 3rd movie pretty much went back to monster-killing Riddick.

Pitch black is still an excellent stand-alone movie but I thought the Riddick movies were awful, no offence to the fans of those movies.

[Dragons Are Real]

4 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

The Chronicles of Riddick attempted to create a mythology, but the failure was in that the movie was poorly received by critics, and they really didn't have the budget to develop the mythos further. The 3rd movie pretty much went back to monster-killing Riddick.

The mythos though, wasn't centered directly on how Riddick became so powerful at the beginning of the story, but how his power continued to grow through his life.

Had that movie come out about ten years later the critics probably would have trampled each other trying to sling praise at it.  Sci-fi was considered shlock at the time, and big budget sci-fi needed the "right" names behind it to even be considered worth a watch.  I still loved it.

[Florina Laufeyson]

2 minutes ago, Azerate said:

 

Lots of other ridiculousness that was already pointed out countless times, so I won't repeat the same things all over again I just want to say that while I agree the build up for the "mad queen" could have been better, I do have a feeling that a large group of people criticizing it are doing it because they didn't want this to happen. Some people are acting as if it was never hinted at or foreshadowed that she's going this way, and I'm sorry, but that's not the case. 

 

This right here. The foreshadowing was everywhere. 

[Mychel_Redfort]

One rant I haven't seen yet : Jon telling Varys the northern army has just passed the Trident and will reach King's Landing in two days.

It's official : showWesteros isn't the size of South America, it seems to be the size of er... France, maybe ?

[darksellsword]

17 minutes ago, Azerate said:

Can't believe what happened to Jaime in this show. Last episode when people were whining about him leaving Winterfell I thought everyone was confused because he is clearly going back to stop Cersei (and probably end up killing her). Turns out it was me who was the idiot. Kind of makes his whole character pointless and kills the moral of his story.

Lots of other ridiculousness that was already pointed out countless times, so I won't repeat the same things all over again I just want to say that while I agree the build up for the "mad queen" could have been better, I do have a feeling that a large group of people criticizing it are doing it because they didn't want this to happen. Some people are acting as if it was never hinted at or foreshadowed that she's going this way, and I'm sorry, but that's not the case. 

 

I see dozens of people tryin to lecture viewers that say this wasn't what would happen in the books but I never actually saw anyone saying that in the first place. The majority of complaints are about how abrupt this turn towards genocide was.

[Dragons Are Real]

2 minutes ago, Mychel_Redfort said:

One rant I haven't seen yet : Jon telling Varys the northern army has just passed the Trident and will reach King's Landing in two days.

It's official : showWesteros isn't the size of South America, it seems to be the size of er... France, maybe ?

Fluctuates through time.  Sometimes it's the size of South America, sometimes it's the size of the smallest island in the south Pacific.  And all sizes between, depending on plot necessity.

I have to agree with those saying Danny's turn had foreshadowing.  BUT, it was handled in the most hamfisted and stupid way in the end by having her seem to pull out of the madness for most of the last season and this season right up to this episode, then suddenly jumping off the edge right as victory, her entire purpose for being in Westeros, was within her grasp.

Kill Cersei?  Absolutely.  Kill everyone?  Not with the character turns they'd already put her through.  It was just for the shock value.  And even that felt hollow with all the "shock" they keep trying to shovel down our throats.

[Dragonslack]

Ha so you thought the dragon was gonna get armor or something else would happen, nope, he is just overpowered and alone decimates an entire city with all its defenses. It was not even a subversion.

Tell me why dragons even have riders and how can she stay on top without a saddle or chains or something? How does she communicate with them, since flying is a lot more complicated than riding, specially with fire breath. Horses have saddles. If she can use telepathy then she could do it from the ground. It's silly.

There is also with all this the obvious problem that I have yet to see mentioned: just shoot the rider. She is out there hovering like a sitting duck without protection. Cant kill a dragon? No problem, a thousand arrows will kill the rider. Qyburn cant even invent a smoke bomb. Or throw wildfire as air defense (rider vulnerable).

One dragon is enough, who needs troops or anything else?! From hero to literally zero those expensive ballistae.

Not once does the dragon use the claws to kill or destroy (hello easy cgi) or maybe eat cerci.

No reason for danny's final rampage.

 

 

Random rants:

Fail me again and die horribly: ok gonna release my brother now.

Stupid imp yet again with the cerci gonna see reason and surrender. His expectations were subverted in show.

The hound entering unnoticed all the way to the queen somehow.

Jaimie fucking Brienne and then going back to cunnilingus the sister that sent a hired killer, failed promises, married and fucked urine, commited atrocities, conniving bitch. Without an effective plan to kill, save or join, or even reach her. Pathetic! Kills depp with one hand and two stabs taken and just walks it off.

Nobody remembered super assassin arya as a way to solve the problem peacefully. Imp and spider also forget about secret entrances and stash of wild fire. Also spies and poison attempts.

Arya super assassin ninja hero wolverine turns around last second and becomes whimpering point of view of the audience, breaking the 4th wall. They say we feel more that way lol. The horse is another lol. Who doubted she would live and the mother and daughter would die?!

The spider decides to undermine the queen on the eve of the battle, and in the most amateur way possible.

Static shots of dragon fire with easy green background or vague dragon around destroying everything scenes. Seems cheap CGI to me and very similar as before. Dragon fire cant move a NK but can break the hardest thickest wall in westeros lol

Lena just keeps staring from the keep. The bitch does nothing and does no even bark.

Mountain looks like a toad and dagger to the brain does not kill the zombie. Cant pop brothers head or even take his eyes. No chest damage from the spike weapon from before.

Not worth mentioning urine..

Noboby says drop your weapons and surrender and they just stare without taking them prisoner.

Streets should be packed with refugees. Populace was supposed in big numbers to be in the red keep itself as mentioned on show.

Again with the bullshit defenders outside the walls, nobody does anything on top of them or behind them. Who needs siege weapons when you have a dragon and who needs backup plan.

Actual troops seemed numbered 1:10 as was the populace (with refugees they shoud be surely over a milllion!) - extras are not cheap. What happened to the big budget. In their pockets?

Nobody checking the refugees for weapons or infiltrators. Refugees still arriving on battle day AFTER the siege. Dumb, very dumb. Plenty of westeros to hide out if you have food, specially if everybody knows dragons rule and burn. Also no one goes to beg mercy or join or asks protection to/from the dragon queen.

Bells are for weddings, attacks etc never for surrendering, incompatible and stupid. Martha equivalent.

Green wildfire underwhelming, how was that gonna destroy the whole city.

Jon is super passive and ineffectual, he was even killed for being an idiot, yet "best choice". Here again just a spectator. Jon snow does nothing and knows nothing. Subverting for subverting's sake becomes nothing enjoyable or with sense. What was the plan spider?

 

 

 

 

 

[Cas Stark]

The problem w/Dany is that the show has tried to have it both ways.  They portrayed her actions as basically, tough, but necessary, the bad guys deserved it.  This is how all of the music, and other visual choices cued the audience to feel, and the audience for the most part agreed.  Badass.   Now, they want to retroactively call all these badass actions as foreshadowing that she will go nuts.  

[Azerate]

17 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

I see dozens of people tryin to lecture viewers that say this wasn't what would happen in the books but I never actually saw anyone saying that in the first place. The majority of complaints are about how abrupt this turn towards genocide was.

In this very thread I saw multiple people claiming that this is out of character for her, and that her story was actually supposed to be about how your heritage doesn't define you and all that kind of stuff. Mostly in the early pages. Then around the middle of the thread people started pointing out that in fact it was always a very popular and well grounded theory, at which time everyone suddenly started saying that they never denied the mad queen theory but don't like the execution.

I'm not trying to have a go at any particular person, and I can't really be bothered to go scanning all the pages of the thread now, just pointing out that there is a group of people who dislike this part of the show simply because they didn't want her to go mad. I'm not saying that's you, and I'm not saying that's even the majority, but it's clear to me that in this particular case, this group is more significant than in the criticism of other subplots

[Pandean]

55 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

The Starbucks coffee cup, the four-legged dragon sigil and Jaime's magical hand are minor issues that can be overlooked. Same goes for the Christian iconography.

Failing to explain the White Walker symbols and messages we have been seeing since episode 1 is an error that cannot be overlooked.

Failing to explain the nature of and the source of Dany's and Bran's magical superpowers is an error that cannot be overlooked.

But then, we are supposed to entrust them with rescuing the Star Wars series and producing a nuanced "what if the Confederacy won the Civil War" TV show.

What movie, comic book, video game, TV show or ancient myth that features people with powers fails to explains how people have such powers, why those people have those powers and no one else does, the limits (if any) of said powers and the purpose of said powers.

Somebody please tell me! What movie/comic book/TV show/video game/fable/myth does that? I'm dying to know!

What are we supposed to forget Daenerys can't be burnt or die of heat exhaustion or smoke inhalation? Are we supposed to shrug off both Bran's telepathic powers AND his timebending powers of omniscience?

Wait. WHAT. 

[BlackLightning]

36 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

The Riddick movies.  Though they handle that a bazillion times better in that his character stays consistent throughout and you do know he comes from a different planet, they don't go into detail about what that really means.

You know, I need to revisit those movies.  They're like more fun, slightly darker Star Wars movies.

We all need to revisit those movies.

But as you'll find out when you rewatch them, they actually do both ennumerate and explain Riddick's powers. They also make it a point to make Riddick's powers purposeful with a story. Whether or not they were successful is up for debate (many say it was very unsuccessful) but it wasn't for lack of trying.

D&D never even tried.

13 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

The problem w/Dany is that the show has tried to have it both ways.  They portrayed her actions as basically, tough, but necessary, the bad guys deserved it.  This is how all of the music, and other visual choices cued the audience to feel, and the audience for the most part agreed.  Badass.   Now, they want to retroactively call all these badass actions as foreshadowing that she will go nuts.  

And then there's the fact that Missandei and Olenna Tyrell encouraged Daenerys be the dragon and lord over the sheep and that Daenerys should unleash dragonfire and be the city-sacker that she was in Astapor.

Were they the Mad Secretary and the Mad Lady?

Missandei's parting word seemed to actually suggest that Daenerys would be setting the commonfolk of King's Landing free with dragonfire. As she set the slaves in Astapor free with dragonfire.

[Pandean]

I feel like I'm going through the stages of grief.

 

First was denial, when I first saw the episode and tried to believe that no, it wasn't that bad.

Now I'm fucking angry. How do you fuck up this badly?? You have amazing actors, amazing source material, a big budget and yet......somehow it becomes complete trash??? If I was GRRM I'd be insulted. If I was the actors who became invested in the characters I'd be insulted. As a fan, I am insulted.

How does it go so fucking downhill? How do you fuck up this badly? God, this makes me nervous, knowing my own book is being pitched in Hollywood. How can anyone be trusted not to ruin shit.

At this point I've read fanfiction better than the actual show. Just. wtf.