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Rant & Rave without Repercussion: Burn It All Edition

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49 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

And what was the point of that moustache-twirling dumb as fuck pirate anyway?

I'm not huge on Euron to begin with, but he was genuinely one of the worst characters ever translated to screen. Horrible casting, abysmal dialogue, a woeful lack of presence. The high-water point of what passed as his character arc was when he was killing off even worse characters than himself. What a joke. 

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Posted (edited)

Good old Qyburn went out with a bang and he didn’t get to confess causing the doom of Valyria while trying to fix himself a Margaeryta in the lab without his glasses. 

Edited by hewman

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I wonder if people would be saying Dany has been insane since book 1 / season 1 if this episode didn't happen.

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If anyone wants to see what was supposed to be shown in the show, here is the behind the curtain segment:

 

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Posted (edited)

If anyone has hired a contractor for a big job... driveway, renovation, pool, whatever. You know how sometimes when the contractor gets about 80%-90% of the job done and then their focus drifts 100% to their next contract and it's impossible to get the job across the finish line, let alone, with the worksmanship expected in the first place? Well, I give you D&D.

Edited by #FreeGhost
Goofed

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11 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

I wonder if people would be saying Dany has been insane since book 1 / season 1 if this episode didn't happen.

Yes, many of us have been saying it since 2013, reading ADWD.

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10 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

I wonder if people would be saying Dany has been insane since book 1 / season 1 if this episode didn't happen.

There are a lot of book readers who have hopped off the Dany train after her sojourn in Meereen.

But, I don't think she's supposed to have actually gone 'insane' more that, as she explicitly said, if she can't be loved she will be feared.  She still has her fire and blood, still has her sense of entitlement that she deserves to rule because of her name, but due to the cumulative losses she has suffered, she has finally  lost her empathy and compassion...if you aren't with me, you are against me, if you are against me: dracarys.

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

There are a lot of book readers who have hopped off the Dany train after her sojourn in Meereen.

But, I don't think she's supposed to have actually gone 'insane' more that, as she explicitly said, if she can't be loved she will be feared.  She still has her fire and blood, still has her sense of entitlement that she deserves to rule because of her name, but due to the cumulative losses she has suffered, she has finally  lost her empathy and compassion...if you aren't with me, you are against me, if you are against me: dracarys.

Right, she needs to be loved and has come round to taking 'feared' as second best, but connected to that has been a steady increase in paranoia. In Essos she felt the love of the multitudes and is shocked not to receive it in Westeros when she feels entitled to it. However, in addition, she's seeing more and more enemies in the faces she sees, assuming people are out to overthrow her in favour of Jon. She'll turn on Tyrion early door next week and probably end up suspecting Jon of planning to betray her. This is exactly how her father ended up.

"Insanity" or "Madness" is not something that is suddenly switched on - it's a gradual process which I assume will be written far more skilfully in the book than the ham-fisted way the screenwriters have managed it.

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I think the show really did a disservice in not showing some of the grey of Jon, Dany, Arya, and Tyrion from the books. They were really white washed and so turning out this way really makes no sense to the viewers. But this is sort of what I expected in the books, I was mostly thinking her “advisors” would do a coup, have the city go into a riot and use wildfire then blame Dany. But this is what they did and I’m fine with it honestly. I can’t be mad when they did the same to Stannis, Doran and the Reach. The only thing I need now is Jon to go beyond the wall and Tyrion to be executed (in the books I think he’s turning into a stone man).

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

There are a lot of book readers who have hopped off the Dany train after her sojourn in Meereen.

But, I don't think she's supposed to have actually gone 'insane' more that, as she explicitly said, if she can't be loved she will be feared.  She still has her fire and blood, still has her sense of entitlement that she deserves to rule because of her name, but due to the cumulative losses she has suffered, she has finally  lost her empathy and compassion...if you aren't with me, you are against me, if you are against me: dracarys.

Yes but 'insane'? Evil? I just think those are strong words to describe people's reasonable feelings that Dany may struggle with power and fire and blood in the future. How can you read the first book, and watch season 1, and realize ''Yes this is an evil, insane person''? You might think 'oh she's going to be tested, she wants to be a conqueror, she wants the Iron Throne but that's not going to be easy', and the dragons are not toys, but to think she's just evil and insane, as I see people here say? That's a leap imo (although that is how the show is framing it I know). 

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2 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

I wonder if people would be saying Dany has been insane since book 1 / season 1 if this episode didn't happen.

Great question.  

One thing I notice posters doing is using past actions Dany took and ascribing to them insane motives.  However, they rarely do this for other characters in leadership roles (the obvious exception being Cersei... gee... I wonder what those two characters have in common?  God, could be anything really) 

And I wonder if people would ascribe insanity to various decisions other characters had made that are similar to Dany's pre-insane City- burning decisions?  

Was Robb "crazy" when he ruined the North by tossing his agreement with the Freys?  A decision that endangered everyone serving with him? 

Was Stannis "crazy" when he met with the Red Priestess and slew his brother?  

Was Balon "crazy" when he (like the complete moron he is) invaded Westeroes proper?  Twice?  

Was Joffery "crazy" when he killed Ned Stark?  

Was Jon "crazy" when he let Ygritte go or allowed the wildlings passage through the Wall?  

Was Mance "crazy" when he attacked the Wall and then refused to yield to Stannis leading to his own death?  

Was Robert "crazy" when he wanted Dany dead?  

Was Lord Mormont "crazy" for taking the Brothers beyond the Wall?  

Was Drogo "crazy" for killing Viserys or the wine merchant?  

Obviously, once Dany decided to flambe King's Landing her insanity was complete.  But that is not the question- the question is whether or not the show laid the proper foundation to make her "heel turn" effective.  My point is that her "crazy" decisions are all (at least prior to this season) well within the margin of "What Other Leaders Have Done" and while some were severe (nailing the slavers to posts) or violent (the first 'Drogon... dracarys" in Storm of Sword) or unwise (her indecision with the slave cities).  But she was never crazy.   She never did something utterly untethered to reality; took an action that had no rational basis; acted arbitrarily or capriciously.  

But because the show did such a disproportional turn, it has sent reasonable fans scrambling to materials trying desperately to justify the very turn.  

Again, the evidence is minuscule, and when compared to what other (... male... there, I said it) leaders have done, it's by no means precursors to Dany's insanity.  

Its bad story telling.  

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21 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

I wonder if people would be saying Dany has been insane since book 1 / season 1 if this episode didn't happen.

Book 3 for me, is when I started to see this "mad queen path" could happen. A lot of the prophesies with her have general hints of maddness/going crazy.

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2 minutes ago, Crona said:

I think the show really did a disservice in not showing some of the grey of Jon, Dany, Arya, and Tyrion from the books. They were really white washed and so turning out this way really makes no sense to the viewers. But this is sort of what I expected in the books, I was mostly thinking her “advisors” would do a coup, have the city go into a riot and use wildfire then blame Dany. But this is what they did and I’m fine with it honestly. I can’t be mad when they did the same to Stannis, Doran and the Reach. The only thing I need now is Jon to go beyond the wall and Tyrion to be executed (in the books I think he’s turning into a stone man).

This is true.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Dragons 7th Eye said:

Well. Emilia was cast in Solo and might actually have a role to play yet there, somewhere. And who runs Star Wars now?

"....ehh.....BeSt Pr0duCeRsss EvAh... :wub:"

She was clearly sarcastic, because she realized that her initial reaction to the question could've been taken as a spoiler for S8, and she's not really legally allowed (NDA) to actually spoil anything before the episode airs.
She hated what they did to Daenerys this season.

There are loads of other scenes where the actors initially show how much they dislike this season, before they quickly recuperate and give the more typical "yeah it's great, you'll see"-type of response. Gwendolie Christie said we're all gonna need therapy and Kit Harrington called the season "disappointing". I personally hoped that it was just part of a ruse, a clever misdirect from the show runners to lower our expectations and set up for some twist, but nope, ultimately the actors where simply being honest: This season is trash and almost everyone will hate it.

Edited by MinscS2

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1 hour ago, Relic said:

Filler. That's all. 

Definitely. But wouldn’t it be nice to have good filler? Euron was a total waste, and oh so fucking dumb and boring. Yawn.

1 hour ago, The Prince of Porne said:

 

To fuck Cersei, and tell people about it every five minutes thereafter?

Was that supposed to be a thing btw? I really thought they were going to do something, anything, out of Cersei’s pregnancy and Euron Pacey being told he was the daddy. But nope, nothing. Just bad filler w/ the most annoying dumb character ever. 

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

To kill a dragon and share the throne w/Cersei. 

Did he share the throne w/ Cersei though? He was seen loitering near her in a few scenes, but that’s all I got. Maybe it happened when I dozed off. 

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

It's unfortunate they made it so easy to kill Rhaegal, RIP, because the juxtaposition with Drogon laying waste to the navy and the army and then the entire city, shows up the 'ambush' for being terrible.

Stupid, stupid and lazy, hallmarks of David and Dan’s plotting. Watch those two scenes from eps 4 and 5 one after the other. So. Incredibly. Lazy. 

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

But, as always, I go against the grain, I thought this may have been the best episode of the season, despite a few stupid elements as always, it was beautifully directed and shot, a shame we never saw what he did with the Long Night since we couldn't see it, might have been good, LOL.  

I suppose I can say it was the best least awful episode of s8 because 1) I could actually see most of it, and 2) cool CGI/visuals even if utterly stupid and too video game-y. 

Not sure I agree w/ “beautifully directed” though. Too much slo-mo made it boring for me, but action/visuals were good. Actor direction though, as always seemingly non-existent 

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

This episode as #9, after a season's worth of Dany becoming unhinged and angry would have been a triumph of subversion of expectations, but as it is, it was a poorly executed huge plot twist that wasn't earned with the 15 minutes of set up we saw in the previous episodes.  But, as a stand alone piece of filmmaking, I can't fault.

Yeah, the instant descent into total madness was ridiculous. Just what I’ve come to expect from David and Dan. No wonder Clarke couldn’t bring herself to say she liked the end, and was walking around in the rain for hours after reading the scripts. 

Also, w/ the way the show runners like to keep the actors in the dark, I can only imagine how outta nowhere it must have felt for her. 

I feel for the actors, all of them.

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

I hate that Cersei got a clean, nearly triumphant death

Hate all about Carol and Larry, but then again, these are not Cersei and Jaime, so fuck ‘em.

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

and that Cleganebowl was as dumb as I thought it would be,

Dumb and boring, I found that fight truly boring. 

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

but all in all, the episode itself was well paced and had some good dramatic moments. 

I thought the pacing was very uneven. :dunno:

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

But then, I also was never on the Dany fan bandwagon, so I'm not upset that she went bad, only that it was poorly executed.

Very poorly executed. Yikes. 

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When explaining why Daenerys destroyed King's Landing, Weiss gave the silly explanation that "she sees the Red Keep, which is, to her, the home that her family built when they first came over to this country 300 years ago. It’s in that moment, on the walls of Kings Landing where she’s looking at that symbol of everything that was taken from her, when she makes the decision to make this personal." But the city already surrendered. She already won.  It was actually worse to me that she sat there perched calmly for several minutes before deciding to burn it all, rather than just being a continuous attack.

There are just so many ways that it could be done that would make for a better story line to get to the same result.  Have Rhaegal die during this attack.  Have Missandei get pushed out the tower of the Red Keep after the Lannister soldiers surrender, sending her into a rage.  Have Dany burn the already surrendered Lannister soldiers.  Have her kill innocents as collateral damage in the process of trying to kill Cersei in the Red Keep.  They would all be better than having her just burning innocents for no reason other than "we mad queen now".

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7 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

Yes but 'insane'? Evil? I just think those are strong words to describe people's reasonable feelings that Dany may struggle with power and fire and blood in the future. How can you read the first book, and watch season 1, and realize ''Yes this is an evil, insane person''? You might think 'oh she's going to be tested, she wants to be a conqueror, she wants the Iron Throne but that's not going to be easy', and the dragons are not toys, but to think she's just evil and insane, as I see people here say? That's a leap imo (although that is how the show is framing it I know). 

I'm guessing that is mostly hyperbole, although there  have definitely been people who weren't on board with the burning of MMD.  I was a Dany fan and wanted her to retake the IT until the Meereen series of fiascos.  I have always wondered how or why the author made her fail so spectacularly if she was one of the heroes, but now I know the answer: she's not.  She failed spectacularly and showed bad judgment because she's going to ultimately succumb to her character flaws, as Kit said, very Shakespearean, a noble person brought low by their fatal flaws.

I don't think the show means to frame her as having been 'mad' from the beginning, they use the Targ coin toss as shorthand because they're lazy writers. 

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1 hour ago, MinscS2 said:

As Emilia put it: "....ehh.... BeSt SeAsOn EvAh... :unsure:"

They were literally trying to warn us.

  • The way Liam Cunningham and Conleth Hill looked at each other and tried to egg on the other to say something positive
  • Kit Harrington spazzes out after revealing his true feelings about the season.
  • Everything about Peter Dinklage

Joe Dempsie/Gendry: That's totally what season 7 was about. Character development? Naah.... Story?! Nope.

Jacob Anderson/Grey Worm: You're brave lol

Also Joe Dempsie/Gendry: I should shut up now.

Also Jacob Anderson/Grey Worm: Joe's not going to be in Star Wars.

Emilia's abnormally awkward tight-lipped stance and Kit Harington crying after reading the script for the finale makes so much more sense now.

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