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Rant & Rave without Repercussion: Burn It All Edition

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I loved the conversation at the beginning of the episode.

 

Tyrion: They're just hostages

Dany: Sometimes you have to shoot a hostage

Tyrion: Not other people's hostages

Dany:  Well I don't have any hostages and I already brought this dragon soooooo

 

I may be paraphrasing.

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18 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

Well, well, well. This post is going to be longer than the battles defeating the two main villains combined. Because MAY’S FOOL, there’s a third main villain. There was that first one, that was main villain for 7 seasons. Then the second one, that was main villain for 1.5 seasons. And now we’re rolling into the series finale to defeat the third, the main main, the ultimate, the superultra, the übervillain that’s been main villain for a full 30 minutes. What a subversion, eh? *wink-wink* 

Oh my fucking goodness. I don’t even know where to start. I was literally laughing aloud for a full 50 minutes. Then things got repetitive and I was very bored. This had happened during the battle of Winterfell too. It’s not because I’m a psychopath. I cry over the Wizard of Oz. But what the fuck was this? :lmao: 

Alright. I have composed myself. Let’s see how our characters are doing. 

So this episode killed more characters than the zombie apocalypse. The massacre count: 

Arya - Surprisingly enough there was still more damage to be done to this character’s integrity. I know, I wouldn’t have thought so either. But they did it. Arya Stark gave up her revenge for her beloved father because her grumpy old revenge obsessed traveling companion told her to go home because she might die. If only he knew that Arya is actually physically indestructible and she defeated death itself literally two episodes ago. 

GreyWorm - Isn’t Grey Worm an Unsullied? A military commander of an army of technically machine soldiers? A battle seasoned soldier who has known death since childhood? Didn’t his training involve raising a puppy and murdering it on orders to be taught discipline? Nope, never mind, His Sundae died, so 20 years of military discipline is right out of the window. 

Daenerys - This lady: completely rational and human for 8.5 seasons and 30 minutes. Also this lady: fuck that shit, we need visuals. 

The “northmen” - These guys: *survive zombie apocalypse, are tired and spent, hate foreigners, but follow their king because they are loyal* Also these guys: *throw themselves into a massacre of unarmed men after a foreigner they loathe against the explicit order of the king they elected* 

The Dothraki - These guys: *were annihilated two episodes ago* also these guys: *risen from death?* 

Jaime - This guy: I broke my vows and killed the king I swore to protect to save the million citizens of King’s Landing. Also this guy: I never cared about these people at all.  But if 20 years of military discipline goes down the toilet in half an episode, then I don’t see why 7 years of on again off again character development can’t. 

Characters we are finally blessed to be rid of (in consecutive order according to how much happiness their being gone evoked in me): Euron, Cersei, Varys, Qyburn, Ungregor, Jaime, Hound, weird new guy with thirty men, 4 minutes of screen time, two lines, one name I can’t rememeber and zero elephants. 
What do we say to the god of removing characters?

 

I don't know why she's leaving or where she's gonna go
I guess she's got her reasons but I just don't wanna know
'Cause for 8 long seasons noone's been living next door to Martha
Martha?
Who the f*** is Martha?

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I think the biggest rant floating up to the top of the rant latrine right now is that there are so many people saying things like "this is GRRM's end". How do you figure that? We only know that he gave D&D broad strokes for his end, but we don't know what, if anything, they chose to use. They've already shown that they're quite comfortable ditching George's material for whatever makes sense to them.

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8 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

So are you suggesting Bran is some kind of omniscient being with the Mind of God? Because that is so far from how he is portrayed.

omniscient no because we can see clearly that he doesn't know everything, he has the capability to know anything he wants, there is a rather big difference, the traditional judeo-christian god doesn't exist in that universe although if he did, Bran would be a distinctly inferior entity.

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26 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

he doesn't know everything, he has the capability to know anything he wants,

Does that mean if he wants to know everything, he can? He could have the knowledge of the Judeo-Christian god but he's currently not in the mood?

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4 hours ago, Tijgy said:

:agree:

D&D said that the moment she burned the khalls was a moment where she showed she was a 'strong woman'. 

This doesn't count only for Dany but also a lot of characters. Next to that I actually think the fans of Dany rationalized a lot of her behaviour. Even now there are theories of Bran being the Big Bad because he warged Dany (after all the theories of being the NK). Bran's biggest crime was one time he was being childish and warged Hodor with terrible consequences. That is the only time but people keep believing for some reason he is the great evil :dunno: He is non-existant, boring, a bot, useless but not evil. (BTW Bran is my favourite human character. He is just terribly written by D&D.

I think you're not only grossly mischaracterizing the problems Dany fans have with how her morals have changed within two episodes but to say Bran was being childish when he melted hodors mind in the past and present just to save his own ass, that act alone would be more than enough evidence that Bran is the big bad by the very yardstick you measured Danys immorality.

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19 hours ago, Nudu said:

Season 1 was almost perfect imo.

Indeed, S01 was fantastic. I was absolutely ecstatic as I was watching it. I spread the gospel of GoT to friends and family.

But now we can see the signs of the problems to come. Remember the ridiculous "s-exposition" scene when Littlefinger divulged his deepest, darkest secrets to two random prostitutes-in-training getting it on? "Play with her ass"? (Although in retrospect, "Ros" would turn out to be far from the worst original creation of the Ding-Dongs.)

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2 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Does that mean if he wants to know everything, he can? He could have the knowledge of the Judeo-Christian god but he's currently not in the mood?

I think there is a wide spectrum of Knowledge that a green seer as powerful as Bran can obtain, that spectrum extends far beyond the limitations you've stated but less than a Judeo-Christian god that would know everything. I think it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that Bran could follow the past present and future of anyone relevant to him ie Arya, Sansa, Jon and witness pertinent events. I think there are very clear suggestions that a "3eyedraven" can see the future. The old 3eyedRaven was aware of not only who Bran was but who and what he would become. He said you will never walk again but " you will fly" I could get into how the 3eyedraven sought Bran out. How did he know Brans abilities were powerful enough to be one day the new 3eyedraven, there is a strong indication there that the old 3eyedraven could see Brans future

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2 minutes ago, Anarchosaurus Rex said:

Indeed, S01 was fantastic. I was absolutely ecstatic as I was watching it. I spread the gospel of GoT to friends and family.

But now we can see the signs of the problems to come. Remember the ridiculous "s-exposition" scene when Littlefinger divulged his deepest, darkest secrets to two random prostitutes-in-training getting it on? "Play with her ass"? (Although in retrospect, "Ros" would turn out to be far from the worst original creation of the Ding-Dongs.)

Not just season 01. It's clear to me that the quality of the writing went dramatically south the moment D&D went beyond GRRM's source material.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

I think you're not only grossly mischaracterizing the problems Dany fans have with how her morals have changed within two episodes but to say Bran was being childish when he melted hodors mind in the past and present just to save his own ass, that act alone would be more than enough evidence that Bran is the big bad by the very yardstick you measured Danys immorality.

He never really intentionally wanted to melt Hodor's mind; and Meera and 3ER told him he should warg Hodor to help them escape. It was a sign how dangerous Bran's powers could be and did you saw him abusing them after that event? No. 

Although you can say Bran is actually to blame for the last two and half stupid seasons. Because if Hodor didn't save Bran, Bran aka 3ER would be killed so that would actually mean the NK would have won. The end of GOT!  

Edited by Tijgy

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Not just season 01. It's clear to me that the quality of the writing went dramatically south the moment D&D went beyond GRRM's source material.

I think that's when it went off a cliff, for sure, but even when they still had plenty of "book" left to adapt they often altered or ignored the source material anyway, like the "Talisa" storyline that sucked up so much time and made so little sense.

Edited by Anarchosaurus Rex

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1 minute ago, darksellsword said:

I think there are very clear suggestions that a "3eyedraven" can see the future. The old 3eyedRaven was aware of not only who Bran was but who and what he would become. He said you will never walk again but " you will fly" I could get into how the 3eyedraven sought Bran out. How did he know Brans abilities were powerful enough to be one day the new 3eyedraven, there is a strong indication there that the old 3eyedraven could see Brans future

That's more like it. Yes, this is a logical and consistent outcome. I don't quite hold to it myself. I think that if you know all the events of the past and present, you can predict with a degree of accuracy what the future hold, but it's never determined as random or irrational (i.e. free will) circumstances can change things. The old 3ER saw into Bran's ancestry and knew that Bran had the potential to become his successor and be even more powerful, but there was always a chance Bran could blow it, as he very nearly did.

We saw something of Bran's training - I wish he hadn't been totally cut out of one whole season, but it was enough to see that his training made fairly slow progress, i.e. he needs considerable time to look into past and present events. It's kind of like saying his hard drive can hold 10 terabytes but he's only filled 50 gigabytes so far.

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2 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

He never really intentionally wanted to melt Hodor's mind; and Meera and 3ER told him he should warg Hodor to help them escape. It was a sign how dangerous Bran's powers could be and did you saw him abusing them after that event? No. 

Although you can say Bran is actually to blame for the last two and half stupid seasons. Because if Hodor didn't save Bran, Bran aka 3ER would be killed so that would actually mean the NK would have won. The end. 

You're opening a whole door there into how messed up Bran is when he wargs a sentient human being to do his bidding, like when he warged hodor intentionally for the second time to snap a mans neck. Hodor comes across as a simpleton but we now know that Bran did something to his Brain that caused him to sound like that. Hodor could be a pacifist and Bran made him a murderer

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So I guess Cersei's last pregnancy was only to make fans feel sorry for her in the end?  It didn't have any other use in the plot because Euron never even got a scene to react to the fact that she played him.  It was for us to be sad that the mommy to be was going to die.  What an awful end to great character.

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6 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

That's more like it. Yes, this is a logical and consistent outcome. I don't quite hold to it myself. I think that if you know all the events of the past and present, you can predict with a degree of accuracy what the future hold, but it's never determined as random or irrational (i.e. free will) circumstances can change things. The old 3ER saw into Bran's ancestry and knew that Bran had the potential to become his successor and be even more powerful, but there was always a chance Bran could blow it, as he very nearly did.

We saw something of Bran's training - I wish he hadn't been totally cut out of one whole season, but it was enough to see that his training made fairly slow progress, i.e. he needs considerable time to look into past and present events. It's kind of like saying his hard drive can hold 10 terabytes but he's only filled 50 gigabytes so far.

Is that in the books? I can't recall, that is so vague. We know in the books or it is hinted at that all the stark children are wargs but what differentiated Bran as a greenseer from his ancestry or someone like Jojen Reed in the eyes of the 3eyedraven.

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2 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

Is that in the books? I can't recall, that is so vague. We know in the books or it is hinted at that all the stark children are wargs but what differentiated Bran as a greenseer from his ancestry or someone like Jojen Reed in the eyes of the 3eyedraven.

I forget too. This thread is just about the show. I trust we'll get answers in tWOW.

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11 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

You're opening a whole door there into how messed up Bran is when he wargs a sentient human being to do his bidding, like when he warged hodor intentionally for the second time to snap a mans neck. Hodor comes across as a simpleton but we now know that Bran did something to his Brain that caused him to sound like that. Hodor could be a pacifist and Bran made him a murderer

I just personally think there are more horrible things done in the show than warging someone in order to protect yourself and your friends (including the person in question). 

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I read a comment on youtube that linked to this clip from Blackwater pointing out Davos' words: "I've never known bells to mean surrender".

 

 

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18 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

I forget too. This thread is just about the show. I trust we'll get answers in tWOW.

Do you know what is the most infuriating about Bran on the tv show. If you remove all of his supernatural powers and gave the Jon's true parentage revelation storyline to Howland Reed as many speculated about based on the books. The only thing it would affect would be the melting hodors mind scene. The plan to kill the Nightking could've been much the same, they came up with the concept of killing the Nightking to destroy them all by themselves without Brans help. Infact Bran messing around beyond the wall with all that 3eyedraven stuff actually harmed the north, If Bran had taken his rightful place as the trueborn son of Ned Stark, much more houses would've rallied to his side to defeat the Boltons

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1 minute ago, darksellsword said:

Do you know what is the most infuriating about Bran on the tv show. If you remove all of his supernatural powers and gave the Jon's true parentage revelation storyline to Howland Reed as many speculated about based on the books. The only thing it would affect would be the melting hodors mind scene. The plan to kill the Nightking could've been much the same, they came up with the concept of killing the Nightking to destroy them all by themselves without Brans help. Infact Bran messing around beyond the wall with all that 3eyedraven stuff actually harmed the north, If Bran had taken his rightful place as the trueborn son of Ned Stark, much more houses would've rallied to his side to defeat the Boltons

Good point. You know my favourite chapter of ASOIAF so far - right at the end of ADWD where the POV is a weirwood tree. That is so damn cool, seeing reality from the perspective of the tree - obviously setting the scene for Bran's evolution. Bran's journey is my favourite part of the saga, and yes, it does leave me crushingly disappointed to see how D&D have so fucked it up.

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