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Rant & Rave without Repercussion: Burn It All Edition

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Posted (edited)

I am not sure if this has been mentioned before (this thread is moving very fast) but the like-dislike ratio on the inside the episode on youtube has almost double the quantity of dislikes. I always stay clear from this kind of egotistical BS but I could not help but turn in to give my thumbs down.

Back to ranting...it seems that Jons's entire parentage has been reduced to "he's the rightful lost heir" so that we could all be properly subverted.

Nevermind that feudal structure went off the rails seasons ago. If Jon does end up on the throne, how would this work in-world? What is the pitch here? Do they tell people I know your entire city and hundreds of civilians were burned by that crazy targ lady...but here is this lost Targaryen who IS the rightful heir. Don't worry he has no dragons and is not crazy.

Maybe the new prince of Dorne will back him up? 

 

 

Edited by -Winterfellian-

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4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Season 2 for sure, and I believe also in seasons 3 and 6. There's actually been a helpful Tweet floating around:

GoT is the second most convoluted show I've ever seen after Westworld, so it's easy to forget small things that happened over the years. There are a lot of throwaway lines and scenes were Dany threatens large scales of people, some who are entirely innocent. Also keep in mind how excited she was to have a son that would be the greatest conqueror ever.

What I will say is that I think she typically overlooked how her actions would affect others in the past. The big difference this season is that she no longer seems to care about that.

Also, I believe it's "raze", not "raise." I think I made that mistake for a very long time. 

So going through the list in the tweet (I deleted it for brevity sake) here is your evidence:

Season 1: Burns Mirri Maz Durr

She executed the person who slew her child and her husband.  By this logic, Ned is crazy for executing a deserter and Jon was crazy for executing Janos Slynt.  

Season 2: Burns House of the Undying

This is the same “House of the Undying” that, literally, imprisoned her and kidnapped her dragons and then attempted to use her to control said dragons.  She was clearly acting in self-defense unless you think being kidnapped is within the rights of the kidnapper.  Again, by this logic, Tyrion acted crazy when Cat kidnapped him and then had Bronn kill that poor, innocent Vale Lord.  He should have just accepted his kidnapping. 

Season 3: Burns Astapor

You mean the slavers?  You mean the dirty, culturally backward, horrible slavers?  Who were slicing off men’s nipples, ordering boys to kill puppies and imprisoning and torturing thousands upon thousands of men and boys? Look, if anyone ever “needed killin’” it was these monsters.  Dany did a great service by ripping up their society root and stem.  Just ask the unsullied.   Again, by this logic, Jon Snow is crazy for killing the people who took over Craster’s Keep- he should have just left that raping band of deserters alone. 

Season 4: Crucifies the Masters of Meeren

After they crucified all those children.  Literally goading her.  Some punishments – especially in this time and place – have to be proportional.  And this one was literally that.  Again, by contrast, Robb Stark is crazy for having executed Lord Karstark after Lord Karstark killed the two Lannister hostages. 

Season 5: Burns Meernise Noblemen

This one I vaguely recall; IIRC she, for some reason, called the nobles to seethe dragons and the two dragons roasted one of the nobles. I do not recall why that was done but IIRC it had something to do with challenging her authority or something wit he Sisters of the Harpy.  Regardless, these were not complete innocents.  However, because I only vaguely remember it I will say that at the time I thought the punishment was especially harsh.  This one I am willing to give half-credit on.

Season 6: Burns Vaes Dothrak

After these Dothrakai had taken her and refused t submit to her authority.  Again, by contrast, was Jon Snow crazy for executing Thorne et all (including a little kid, lets not for get that) for their attempt toe execute him?

Season 7: Burns Wagon Train

In the immortal words of Tyrion Lannister, “I believe they call that war.”  This was a battle; completely fair and square; its not her fault her army was better.  When the battle was over she allowed her opponents to bend the knee and executed those who did not; something leaders from Ned Stark to Tywin Lannister to Stannis Baratheon had been doing for decades. 

So, after 7 seasons, one of the most ubiquitous characters has one-half an action that makes us think she could be nuts.  Not even close to a good foundation.  OTOH, as late as the prior season, Dany allowed captured combatants to bend the knee and submit to her authority, sparing their lives.  She took in Tyrion, the brother of the man who slew her father; she took in Barristan Selmy who served Robert Baratheon, the Usurper; she reunited with Jorah Mormont, the man who betrayed her; she freed every slave she ever came in contact with; she allowed various mercenary bands to join her; she avoided casualties in battles whenever she could. 

And she never, EVER, BBQ’s those who had surrendered.  She never killed innocent women and children.  She never ever did anything like that. 

This evidence and this theory are wanting. 

This was a terrible heel turn with virtually no foundation.  

 

 

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I knew the episode was going to be kind of strange once we see Grey Worm in front of the troops with no helmet or shield. Felt like all of it was Drogon day dreaming.

What happened to the Golden Company's cavalry?

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9 minutes ago, Rast-afari said:

I knew the episode was going to be kind of strange once we see Grey Worm in front of the troops with no helmet or shield. Felt like all of it was Drogon day dreaming.

What happened to the Golden Company's cavalry?

Golden company, more like fart in the wind company am I right

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@Rockroi season 5 : Burns the Meereenese noblemen. She did that because they were supporting/members of the sons of the harpy and were assassinating the unsullied commanders and other random unsullied and they killed Ser Barristan Selmy aka Barristan the bold, one of the greatest knights that ever lived. Reprisal killings against a section of society that is actively murdering your soldiers isn't all too extreme either.

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So can we talk for a second about how Jon has the emotional range of a piece of cardboard, needs to fucking USE HIS WORDS, and in general has become basically a broody potato?

Like I don't think it's his fault that Dany did what she did but boy oh boy maybe USE YOUR WORDS and talk to Dany about why you don't want to fuck her and that you're having an identity crisis because maybe that nice emotional heart-to-heart will help with the situation instead of just sullenly pulling away and repeating she's your queen with a face that looks like you've been unable to shit properly for a month.

Just. The relationship already had zero chemistry but it feels like Jon isn't even trying. No wonder there's that gif of Kit Harrington's dismayed face as he reads the script for the first time at the table reading.

I mean it wasn't like Jon was a paragon of emotional intelligence before but at this point he's got the emotional range and intelligence god gave an empty fiber one cereal box.

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Pandean said:

So can we talk for a second about how Jon has the emotional range of a piece of cardboard, needs to fucking USE HIS WORDS, and in general has become basically a broody potato?

Like I don't think it's his fault that Dany did what she did but boy oh boy maybe USE YOUR WORDS and talk to Dany about why you don't want to fuck her and that you're having an identity crisis because maybe that nice emotional heart-to-heart will help with the situation instead of just sullenly pulling away and repeating she's your queen with a face that looks like you've been unable to shit properly for a month.

Just. The relationship already had zero chemistry but it feels like Jon isn't even trying. No wonder there's that gif of Kit Harrington's dismayed face as he reads the script for the first time at the table reading.

I mean it wasn't like Jon was a paragon of emotional intelligence before but at this point he's got the emotional range and intelligence god gave an empty fiber one cereal box.

But Jon and Daenerys sitting down and having an actual conversation about the recent events that has greatly affected the both of them would be logical. You know, 3 weeks ago you where lovers, now you are confused aunt and nephew. Daenerys is actually the closest relative Jon has all of a sudden, and Jon is the only relative Daenerys has. You guys might wanna...dunno, talk things trough for real at least once?
Then again, that would be too logical for the narrative this season, so we can't have that.

And Jon actually trying to comfort Daenerys before the big battle, after everything she has lost (compared to Jon who essentially only lost... Edd), would make her less likely to snap later in the episode. Remember in S7E6 on the boat after the wight hunt when Jon actually had a genuine heart-to-heart with her, and basically showered her with adoration and respect to the point where she pretty much began to cry?
Yeah, can we get that Jon back please? No? Why not? The script said no? Well that's a damn shame...

TLDR: The writers want Daenerys to apeshit this season, and anything that could potentially stand in the way of that forced, sudden change of her arc, is shoved aside. Logic and common sense be damned. 

Basically, this is what we get when the narrative for over 7 seasons has pushed a character on the path of the heroine, but then at the very last minute decides that she's a villain instead. The rest of the story doesn't catch up in time, and nothing the characters do after this makes any sense or follow any logic, because if they did, they would still be following the main narrative, which would stand in the way of the last-second turn. So instead of saying or acting the way they "should", they instead do nothing and/or keep silent. Jon is the perfect example of this. If he had behaved like an actual human this season, Daenerys wouldn't have destroyed Kings Landing in the latest episode.

Edited by MinscS2

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I knew this season was going to be epic in its shitness when I heard David Benioff say in the behind the scenes of episode one that Dickon Tarly was Sams older brother. If that guy didn't know something so basic about the story how could he ever handle the more sensitive details. It was doomed from that moment on.

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Does anyone remember the last time there were Gold Cloaks in King's Landing? WTF happened to them? Did Cersei dismiss them?

Did the production team lose all their costumes? Went to the same trash bin as Missandei's other outfits. 

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15 hours ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

My favorite video.

:thumbsup:

Every time I see David talking about GoT he seems in so much pain as if he’s the only thing standing between the whole immensity of the creation he’s holding on the shoulders and the force of gravity. I wonder who wrote his script. 

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 This was our great hope:  that the final season of Game of Thrones would be so bad that General audiences would stop defending it.

maybe now they’ll stop making excuses for the Sansa rape, Stannis death, and tv Dorne.

and going on to Stat Wars?  Which has more of a “fans news and analysis infrastructure” than we ever did?  They bit off more than they can chew.  Star Wars fandom will devour them.

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7 hours ago, darksellsword said:

I knew this season was going to be epic in its shitness when I heard David Benioff say in the behind the scenes of episode one that Dickon Tarly was Sams older brother. If that guy didn't know something so basic about the story how could he ever handle the more sensitive details. It was doomed from that moment on.

but it shouldn t. The big problem of this season should be how to make the others a problem for all westeros without killing everybody in the north...

Next they needed to invent a plan to kill the NK that involved magic na prophecies...

they didn t need to do much more than this.. 

This season seems like they wanted to ruin GOT on porpuse….

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Posted (edited)

Actually I think I can hear the show runners:

-Dany goes bersek?

- Why does she go bersek?

-Who cares why she goes bersek? Give it to fans, they will think of something.  

-Right. And then we have Jamie, he returns to Cersei. Isn't that dumb?

- Well put him to say he is the dumbest of all the Lanisters. 

-Yes, we will use his line from another episode, so it's a full closure. They will love it. 

-Varys...

-Ditch him. Flame him with that dragon. 

-It doesn't make sense though for his character...

-Who cares for his character?

-What Jon will be doing?

-Give him a sword he will find something.

 

Edited by Nightwish

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31 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

 This was our great hope:  that the final season of Game of Thrones would be so bad that General audiences would stop defending it.

It’s nice to see that at least something good has come out of this trainwreck of a final season, though I must admit that I actually would have preferred it if the show had ended on a high note as this might well be the only sort of ending we’re going to get to ASOIAF.

 :(

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12 hours ago, Nami said:

Over the last few days I've been randomly shedding tears for Dany's character whenever I think about her. which actually surprises me since I have been hate watching this series since season 5, have been annoyed with ShowDany just as long and I've never done this ever for any fictional character. Heh.

See, I ain't a Dany fan either, but even I call character assassination when I see it. Dany is egotistical, ruthless, entitled... but she would never let loose on the civilians of a surrendering city. It just doesn't make sense, and anyone who says otherwise but still thinks someone like Arya is fine as a 'sympathetic', 'sane' protagonist is either high, stupid, in denial, or all three.

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29 minutes ago, divica said:

but it shouldn t. The big problem of this season should be how to make the others a problem for all westeros without killing everybody in the north...

This could have been done. Sansa convinces Jon to flee with the north to the Iron Islands held by Yara. The dead army proceeds south unopposed. 

As it is the south has no idea anything even happened. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Rast-afari said:

I knew the episode was going to be kind of strange once we see Grey Worm in front of the troops with no helmet or shield. Felt like all of it was Drogon day dreaming.

What happened to the Golden Company's cavalry?

I wondered about where and what happened to the GC's cavalry as well.  IIRC, it was even mentioned in the meet and greet with Cersei, Strickland, Euron, and Qyburn.  I'm fairly certain Strickland mentioned all the horses and cavalry that he brought, but it was those missing elephant's and their memes that Cersei was more concerned about.  It seems that GC cavalry consisted of Harry himself and his horse, that was it? 

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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