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Rant & Rave without Repercussion: Burn It All Edition

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One of many things that didn't seem to ring true, was Dany deciding that Westeros would and did 'love' Jon more than her.  Obviously the North is going to prefer Jon, half Stark, former NW, a Northerner heart and soul, to some Targ from Essos with dragons.  If she was really going to become paranoid there needed to be time for a sense that all of Westeros would end up preferring Jon, either because he's male and from Westeros or his 'charisma' or whatever, but the show never shows us or even tells us of anyone outside his own region having any feelings about Jon Snow one way or the other.

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30 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

One of many things that didn't seem to ring true, was Dany deciding that Westeros would and did 'love' Jon more than her.  Obviously the North is going to prefer Jon, half Stark, former NW, a Northerner heart and soul, to some Targ from Essos with dragons.  If she was really going to become paranoid there needed to be time for a sense that all of Westeros would end up preferring Jon, either because he's male and from Westeros or his 'charisma' or whatever, but the show never shows us or even tells us of anyone outside his own region having any feelings about Jon Snow one way or the other.

Fair criticism.  We needed the full ten episodes.  

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

And honestly this makes HBO look really bad. The HBO people -- suits or otherwise -- had to have seen this; the fact that they just let some of this stuff air without even mitigating some of the mistakes in post-production (i.e. the Starbucks cup, the poor visibility in the Long Night)

This is what's killing me.  Nobody on HBO's management team was fan enough of the show to pull back in horror at the final episodes and say, "fuck you guys.  Do it better or GTFO."  Nobody?  Really?

I have a feeling if the entire GoT property is now a lost cause, they may end up considering adding an oversight committee for shows in development in the future.  Time will tell I suppose.

18 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Money talks. A petition isn't enough.

Ultimately the only thing that might actually cause HBO to seriously consider a remake with new writers (and as many of the old cast as possible - again, money talks. I believe with enough an incentive, many actors would be willing to do a remake, especially those who hate the ending) is if a large enough number of people actively start to boycott everything related to them.

If HBO realize that there's either a big profit in a remake, or a potential loss in both revenue and good will by letting things be the way they currently are, they might consider it.

Remember that HBO wanted more episodes and seasons, it was D&D who said no, so I don't think they themselves will be that hard to persuade. 
Getting the cast and production team (minus D&D) on board after this travesty will be far harder. 

I have zero hope that they'll remake the final season(s) in any format for many, many years.

As far as money, this will be the first season we don't buy the box set for, and I am taking a hardline after this last episode to ANY GoT related materials produced by HBO.  I will NOT watch it.  Period.  I want them to get the message through their heads that they truly messed up allowing this last season to stand as it is.  I get that it's still getting ratings now, but I want the new shows to fail spectacularly so they understand you can't destroy a property and still draw a crowd with it.  It just doesn't work that way.

 

9 hours ago, Gendelsdottir said:

A live-action remake would, I think, be unworkable for similar reasons this one isn't working. One of my main disappointments has been the devaluing of magic in-universe. An animated series could go crazy with the magic, limited only by the imaginations of the storyliners & artists. Production costs (direwolves) and showrunner embarrassment about supernatural elements (wasn't spelled out) are no longer a concern.

I don't give a damn about bittersweetness, badassery, shock reveals, tropes, 'ships, or any of that. All I want is a good story, well told. There's plenty of room between "anvil the viewers over the head till all suspense is gone" and "give them shocking random eyeball kicks without logical explanation, till all suspense is gone." Surely there was enough time and budget to deliver on the series' early promise.

Maybe there's a payoff in what Bran does in the last ep, but there I go, doing that wishful thinking thing, again. Sigh.

The thing is, any other show runners taking on a property like GoT would be capable of seeing and using the supernatural elements and the magic inherent in the story.  They flat out stated they didn't like magic or supernatural elements, and did their best to eliminate them whenever possible.  I'm honestly surprised they even bothered having a threat from the north.  They should have just gutted the thing from the beginning and had it all be about the squabbling over the throne.  Then we wouldn't have had to waste our time watching it without knowing it wasn't going to actually be about the existential threat and those of us that liked the idea of the world needing to pull together in order to face off against what could be humanities extinction could move on to something else.

Holy run-on sentence, Batman!  Sorry about that.  We lost one of our dogs last night so my mind is a bit scattered this morning.

Edited by Dragons Are Real

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

This is what's killing me.  Nobody on HBO's management team was fan enough of the show to pull back in horror at the final episodes and say, "fuck you guys.  Do it better or GTFO."  Nobody?  Really?

Look at the number of "producers" in the credits. All these people agreed with 2 scorpions on boats kill 1 out of 2 dragons in two seconds but a full battery of bigger scorpions on land can't even shoot ONCE at the remaining dragon? 

Is it a conspiracy?

Edited by Nowy Tends

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8 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

This is what's killing me.  Nobody on HBO's management team was fan enough of the show to pull back in horror at the final episodes and say, "fuck you guys.  Do it better or GTFO."  Nobody?  Really?

I have a feeling if the entire GoT property is now a lost cause, they may end up considering adding an oversight committee for shows in development in the future.  Time will tell I suppose.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum probably fought back hard on HBO and said: "trust us, they will love it."

Well, HBO was wrong to trust. The writing was on the wall, or should I say, on the script they were holding.

11 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

The thing is, any other show runners taking on a property like GoT would be capable of seeing and using the supernatural elements and the magic inherent in the story.  They flat out stated they didn't like magic or supernatural elements, and did their best to eliminate them whenever possible.  I'm honestly surprised they even bothered having a threat from the north.  They should have just gutted the thing from the beginning and had it all be about the squabbling over the throne.  Then we wouldn't have had to waste our time watching it without knowing it wasn't going to actually be about the existential threat and those of us that liked the idea of the world needing to pull together in order to face off against what could be humanities extinction could move on to something else.

Holy run-on sentence, Batman!  Sorry about that.  We lost one of our dogs last night so my mind is a bit scattered this morning.

That's the thing. Why would the showrunners be embarrassed by the supernatural elements of the story? It doesn't make sense.

You have fire-breathing dragons, psychic children, shadowbending witches, magical ice demons, wood nymphs and different types of resurrection. What's left to work with?

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Posted (edited)

 

18 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

 

The thing is, any other show runners taking on a property like GoT would be capable of seeing and using the supernatural elements and the magic inherent in the story.  They flat out stated they didn't like magic or supernatural elements, and did their best to eliminate them whenever possible.  I'm honestly surprised they even bothered having a threat from the north.  They should have just gutted the thing from the beginning and had it all be about the squabbling over the throne.  Then we wouldn't have had to waste our time watching it without knowing it wasn't going to actually be about the existential threat and those of us that liked the idea of the world needing to pull together in order to face off against what could be humanities extinction could move on to something else.

Holy run-on sentence, Batman!  Sorry about that.  We lost one of our dogs last night so my mind is a bit scattered this morning.

Exactly I am not the soap opera viewer so I would have moved on. Better not even started it. I thought this would be an epic fantasy not an endless soap opera with zombies and dragons just to draw the attention. 

Edited by Nightwish

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3 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

Look at the number of "producers" in the credits. All these people agreed with 2 scorpions on boats kill 1 out of 2 dragons in two seconds but a full battery of bigger scorpions on land can't even shoot ONCE at the remaining dragon? 

Is it a conspiracy?

They actually have an executive story editor/producer named Dave Hill, my first thought was  why isn't that Georges position or someone he trusts.

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15 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

They actually have an executive story editor/producer named Dave Hill, my first thought was  why isn't that Georges position or someone he trusts.

George essentially stopped working with them because they wouldn't take any of his suggestions seriously.  And in several cases just flat out told him his "opinion" on where the story should go is wrong.  And we know this because THEY SAID IT THEMSELVES IN THEIR SMUG ASS INTERVIEWS.

You'd never imagine that you could be told you don't know how to tell your own story, but these guys are college smart edumicatedz writers, so, you know.  Fuck logic.  Fuck story.  Fuck character.  BOOBS!  FIRE!  FLOPPY WIENERS!  INVISIBLE BATTLES!  YAY!

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24 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

George essentially stopped working with them because they wouldn't take any of his suggestions seriously.  And in several cases just flat out told him his "opinion" on where the story should go is wrong.  And we know this because THEY SAID IT THEMSELVES IN THEIR SMUG ASS INTERVIEWS.

You'd never imagine that you could be told you don't know how to tell your own story, but these guys are college smart edumicatedz writers, so, you know.  Fuck logic.  Fuck story.  Fuck character.  BOOBS!  FIRE!  FLOPPY WIENERS!  INVISIBLE BATTLES!  YAY!

You forgot "forced dick jokes" and "cutaways on potentially interesting reveals"...

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1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

You forgot "forced dick jokes" and "cutaways on potentially interesting reveals"...

What was the deal with cutting interesting conversations before they are finished in these last 2 seasons?

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10 minutes ago, divica said:

What was the deal with cutting interesting conversations before they are finished in these last 2 seasons?

They have zero idea how to write dialog and truly believe that facial expressions are far more relevant and interesting than dialog.

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22 minutes ago, divica said:

What was the deal with cutting interesting conversations before they are finished in these last 2 seasons?

Because anyone can do a cutaway, but only a good writer can write good dialogue. 

See what I did there? 

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15 hours ago, Nami said:

All this hate gives me life

 

I am liking the start of this video, I think I'll watch the whole thing.  Oddly enough, I haven't quite braved the Game Revealed video (not totally anyway).  Unlike the Inside the Epi, at least the Game Revealed ones have other people besides the Double Doucheberries talking to (at) us.  Thanks for the vid. 

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7 hours ago, Nami said:

I think he already made whatever it was the deal with HBO for the spinoffs. So he won't bash it.

The Ds have nothing to do with any GOT/ASOIAF spinoffs, though.  HBO yes, so far, but with other production teams working on it. 

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2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

One of many things that didn't seem to ring true, was Dany deciding that Westeros would and did 'love' Jon more than her.  Obviously the North is going to prefer Jon, half Stark, former NW, a Northerner heart and soul, to some Targ from Essos with dragons.  If she was really going to become paranoid there needed to be time for a sense that all of Westeros would end up preferring Jon, either because he's male and from Westeros or his 'charisma' or whatever, but the show never shows us or even tells us of anyone outside his own region having any feelings about Jon Snow one way or the other.

LOL  Yup, it seems seeing Tormund, a Wildling that is already one of Jon's greatest friends, admire Jon and point out his strong suits was just too much for Poor Dany.  One drunken wildling starts Dany's paranoia and has Varys taking ominous note of it.  :rolleyes:

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8 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

The Ds have nothing to do with any GOT/ASOIAF spinoffs, though.  HBO yes, so far, but with other production teams working on it. 

Does it matter?  They've tainted the property to the point some people are even swearing off the books.  I know I won't trust HBO to be in charge of any more GoT shows.  I hope the books are completed at some point.  I'd like to read the entire story.

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1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

Look at the number of "producers" in the credits. All these people agreed with 2 scorpions on boats kill 1 out of 2 dragons in two seconds but a full battery of bigger scorpions on land can't even shoot ONCE at the remaining dragon? 

Is it a conspiracy?

I believe that HBO considered the appeal of show to be nudity and dragons. It is obvious that they never cared for details that made books great.

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I was thinking about how they could've plotted out episode 5 and 6 better with a more realistic outcome. During the feast hall celebration at Winterfell. MIssandei tells Daenerys that she wants to go back to Narth and live there with Greyworm and raise orphaned Children or something touching like that, naturally Dany is heartbroken at the idea and Greyworm pledges to remain with her until after she conquers Kingslanding. Jon chimes in and offers Missandei some ships in Oldtown to sail to Narth with any of the injured unsullied that wish to go with her. Missandei leaves on regular ships heading for Narth. Jon and Daenerys ride together on horseback to Kingslanding giving the dragons time to recover. Missandeis ships are captured by Euron and he has obviously seen Missandei before and knows who she is. Jaime catches up to Jon and Daenerys forces. As all of Danys army arrives at Kingslanding Dany flies in on her Dragon with a birdseye view of kingslanding. Cersei is somewhere central standing on a platform behind the gates. Dany realises to her horror that it is a public execution. There are unsullied bodies on the platform with their heads on spikes. Cersei looks up and smirks as Ser Gregor cuts Missandeis head off. The crowd is cheering and throwing things at Missandei before she is executed just as they did with Ned Stark. It is then that one of the Scorpions lances Rhaegal throw the neck. Daenerys attacks . Jaime runs through the mess and finds his way to Cersei. She blames him for everything and tells him the truth, she never really loved him and as Lena heady herself always said, she just wanted to be him. Jaime responds with something along the lines of, Lady Olenna was right you are a disease and I regret spreading you and he chokes her to death with the roof collapsing in on them thus fulfilling the prophecy

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3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

One of many things that didn't seem to ring true, was Dany deciding that Westeros would and did 'love' Jon more than her.  Obviously the North is going to prefer Jon, half Stark, former NW, a Northerner heart and soul, to some Targ from Essos with dragons.  If she was really going to become paranoid there needed to be time for a sense that all of Westeros would end up preferring Jon, either because he's male and from Westeros or his 'charisma' or whatever, but the show never shows us or even tells us of anyone outside his own region having any feelings about Jon Snow one way or the other.

Yeah that was a major plothole. Since episode four I was wondering what happened to Dorne? What happened to the Reach?

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15 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

Does it matter?  They've tainted the property to the point some people are even swearing off the books.  I know I won't trust HBO to be in charge of any more GoT shows.  I hope the books are completed at some point.  I'd like to read the entire story.

I also think this is true. The season is the worst kind of publicity for both the prequels and books I have ever seen.

Any prequel they want to launch will have to regain the fans interest and make them Forget how badly GOT ended. It is a really dificult job for series that will porbably have a big budget and need a big fan base in order to be profitable… I honestly think any prequel has a high risk of being canceled after the first season… 

Ad even grrm will have to make people believe his story will have a better finale or at least don t feel like some depressing tragedy...

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