Jump to content
Corvinus

Rant & Rave without Repercussion: Burn It All Edition

Recommended Posts

Wait - I just remembered a hard eyeroll I had. Jaime was caught because he didn't hide his golden hand? And you explain it by saying you're the stupidest Lannister? A better explanation would be that he fought at Winterfell after being the subject of a trial before Dany. Oh, and not to mention he's the fucking Kingslayer. Random people in Winterfell recognized him enough to spit on him. Of course the soldiers would recognize him. Just a lazy, lazy explanation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Varys seemed to think he'd be pretty good at ruling. He can inspire men and is noble to a fault. Probably Sansa would be his hand and not Tyrion. KL is burned, so he could move the seat of power to Storm's End or somewhere else. Eh. I'm Team Jon. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on bittersweet being Jon taking rule.

Varys thinks a lot of people are pretty good at ruling before acting like a scorned lover when disappointed. Varys thought Viserys would have been a good king.

And so far Jon has shown absolutely no political skill. People like him but the northen lords got pretty chilly after Jon refused to listen to them. So far Jon didn´t really make any sound political decisions. No scheming, no government policy, no compromise, no nothing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Sir said:

Someone tell me why Arya survived this episode instead of dying in Jon’s arms at the end?

At least her death would’ve helped generate some excitement for next week’s episode.

I think the intention (badly enacted) is to set her up as virtually indestructible, in that she has one more key mission to fulfill. Is the white horse some part of a prophecy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Gertrude said:

Prophecy? What's prophecy? They don't do that in this show, do they?

Well, they start prophecy tropes and forget to finish them. Maybe this is one where we get the end of one they forgot they never introduced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the end of Season 4, I didn't think this show could make me feel anything but disgust and derision, but after reading about what they did to Ghost last episode and Jaime this, I have to admit it's hurtful.

So maybe it's hats off to Dumber and Dumberer, as they made this show hater feel something?  Arseholes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

This was the last straw for me. They ruined Dany. From the leaks, we know what we're going up to next week and I don't wanna see that. I just don't care anymore. I'm done with this show.

Now I know what Star Wars fans felt like with The Last Jedi. The pain and insult is great. 

Edited by Nami

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Pandean said:

I'm not sure I like how it was executed but I honestly wasn't surprised re: Dany going mad. I think it's been something we've been building up to slowly and not actually as out of the blue as it appears at first glance.

 

However Jon was and continues to be a spineless idiot. 

 

Have we though? Most of the killing she's done is pretty generic for someone in her position, lighting up the entirety of King's Landing is like going from 1 to 100 in the blink of an eye amean I could buy her destroying the Red Keep and everyone inside to get Cersei but burning the rest of the city is entirely out of character for her unless she has literally just snapped and rejected everything that made her character what she was, in which case nah they haven't built that up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

TBH I'm like 99% sure this is where Dany will end up in the books, the execution of it was just completely horrible in the show. Really hope if this is where George is going it is built up to properly.

GRRM has at least hinted in the 5 books so far, of the possibility of her going mad. He still has two books left to developer her madness properly, if he wants to go that route.

The show figured their build up would be: Dany burns down two members of House Tully during war times, totally means she is made bro.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, what tripe.

If you didn't know that was coming the second they had Varys repeat the shit about Targaryens being a flip of the coin you're a fucking dullard. It was the most hamfisted heel turn I've seen outside of professional wrestling. To say that the way D&D write their characters is inconsistent is the understatement of the century. It's not like Varys was brought down by some flaw, the plot just needed him to be a moron in order to carry along the plot. Just like how Littlefinger suddenly became a moron, we see characters act outside of their nature to drag this brutalized plot along.

Man, what was even the point of bringing in the Golden Company if you're just gonna barbecue them in 2 seconds. Oh well, at least they're dead now, and the bad men can't hurt them.

Arya magically finds a white horse, gee, I wonder what the fuck that could mean. Why not just beat us over the head with your obvious trash.

Having Dany just start burning the city didn't really make much sense. There is nothing about her entier arch that suggests that she is just gonna start lighting up some nerds because she has the sadz. Should have had something like she snaps, goes on a bit of a rampage, comes back to her senses as Drogon's flames hit a cache of Wildfire hidden by Aryes himself. The fire spreads, as wildfire does, unabated by any attempts to put it out, more and more caches ignite, a chain of explosions rock Kings Landing, and causing all that sweet sweet destruction. That way, you preserve Dany's character integrity, tie it into some of the foreshadowing that you've done while at the same time subverting it and the other characters can still blame Dany.

Also why does the Wildfire just explode and burn off immediately? that is quite clearly not how it works, even in the show.

Just gonna wrap this up with one thing. The fact that anyone is surprised of how this is ending needs to check themselves. David Benioff is the same chud who wrote Troy and Wolverine Origins. I game him the benifit of the doubt when the show started, but as you started to see how things were diverging and they stopped being able to lift the story and dialogue directly from the books, you had to see this coming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, teej6 said:

So Euron is just happy that he'll be known as the person who killed the Kingslayer. I wonder how he'll be known as such when no one saw him fight and stab Jamie. 

Everyone with an HBO Subscription or who knows how to torrent will remember. And judging by how knowledge of obscure details gets around on this show, that's half of Westeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AlaerysTargaryen said:

Also , could somekne point out the sweet?

It could be the fact that there’s only one episode left. 

I guess the lesson Dany was trying to teach was that war is horrendous, but the cost for this lesson seams disproportionately high to me. 

The lesson I’ve learned is: “Stick to reading the damn books - the movie will always be disappointing”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Daemon of the Blacks said:

Varys thinks a lot of people are pretty good at ruling before acting like a scorned lover when disappointed. Varys thought Viserys would have been a good king.

And so far Jon has shown absolutely no political skill. People like him but the northen lords got pretty chilly after Jon refused to listen to them. So far Jon didn´t really make any sound political decisions. No scheming, no government policy, no compromise, no nothing. 

Didn't Varys say Dany would be "too strong" for Jon? Why does he think a weak willed person would make a good king?

29 minutes ago, MagicPen said:

GRRM has at least hinted in the 5 books so far, of the possibility of her going mad. He still has two books left to developer her madness properly, if he wants to go that route.

The show figured their build up would be: Dany burns down two members of House Tully during war times, totally means she is made bro.

I just can't agree with that. What was the point of having Dany worrying if she has "the taint" if she's actually going to succumb to it in the end?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

It feels good to not watch, just follow the meltdown afterwards.

I'm sure there's a "Carol of the Bells" joke in there just waiting to be made, but then I love that song.

D&D sure knew why they were going to hide for a week. I'm just waiting for their return, when they will tell interviewers that fans are just so unreasonable, and probably envious of D&D's genius and success and stuff.

Sooo, who's the YMBQ?

Edited by Mindwalker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what I didn't like:

- Arya and the horse. Really? In the middle of burned city, there is horse with a saddle lollygagging around as if nothing is going on. This scene really ruined the episode.

- Jaime's fight with Euron was useless. If Euron was killed on the ship by dragonfire, it would be better. Although he severely hurt Jaime, Jaime spent another several hours running around like he's completely fine.

- that was Jaime's and Cersei's death? Really? Very anticlimatic.

- no valonquar. I suppose that you can say that Cersei died this way because Jaime led her to the basement and because Tyrion sent Jaime to save her but I call it BS.

- the woman and her daugher. Not only their death was predictable but it was useless to introduce them. We get that civilains died when Dany got mad, we just saw tons of them burn, be killed by her and Jon's army and killed by debris.

- Grey Worm launching another attack because... um... no idea why.

- why were Jon's men attacking civilians???

- Jon isn't able to make the man stop fighting but then suddenly some 30 minutes later it works perfectly

- in previous episode the scorpions killed the dragon as it was no big deal. Now they suddenly can't even shoot, let alone hitting the target, and they were destroyed too easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't emphasise this enough so I will share it once again, Dany had literally completed what she had set out to do. The city was hers and it would have probably been the cleanest war in history taking the IT without any civilian casualties. She was growing impatient yet but why throw all those years of patience away because you're impatient over say a few more hours. Cersei was done, Dany looked at the Red Keep with disgust then went and burned the whole of KL pretty much. Aegon the Conqueror burned down Harrenhal with ease using Balerion the Black Dread, Dany could have gone straight to the Red Keep after `the Bells' and burned it down along with Cersei and her loyalists whilst her soldiers rounded up everybody else and the city would have been hers. Whatever the Red Keeps built of is pretty fire resistant, took a while to burn surely it should have been much easier than that. 

This would have made a lot of people sympathies with her, removing Cersei who pretty much everybody hates whilst maintaining that the civilians of KL remain unharmed. She would have been accepted with open arms, hailed a saviour and lived up to her name

After all of this if she wanted to go down the route of the Mad Queen and D&D were adamant on that then it could have been done much more differently. Alongside with holding the remainder of Lannister loyalists captive and torturing them - the things expected to occur in wars she could have reined the power of dracarys down on those who did not bend the knee or accept her as queen both in KL and the 7 Kingdoms.

KL would have been no issue anyway, if she hadn't burnt everything down - they were hers.

It just seems as if they had to force her to take the Mad Queen route even though she literally was about to fulfill her dreams and not because she can't rule because D&D would prefer less writing, the more they write the more intelligent it has to be and they are very unqualified. So they needed to justify why Bran revealed the information regarding R+L = J and why Jon was brought back from the dead. Sitting him on the IT covers both, Dany ends up mad like her father and everything is as lazy whilst playing The Game of D&D.

It's also so Pathetic by Varys to say ''hope I deserve this'' for him to die and the next day events to make it seem like he didn't, that he did truly serve 'the realm' I personally don't think he's innocent and that 'the realm' thing was all way too force but Dany acting in the way she died makes Varys seem innocent and correct.

The Golden Company were built up to be incredible, did they lost because their elephants weren't there? Shouldn't they have been inside, why did they even go outside? They surely would have been more organised inside, rushing the opposition as they broke down the gates. It's ridiculous.

Euron playing around with Jaime was pathetic - could have finished the job but no somehow Jaime and Cersei had to die in each others arms.

The Mountain died because he did to The Hound what The Red Viper did to him, played too much and lost his life whilst taking his brothers.

Qyburn the genius who created of ballista's that come equipped with aimbot, the man that helped to burn down the Great Sept of Baelor, to keep the Mountain alive and make him pretty much immune to stab wounds, the man who loves to experiment on dead bodied didn't have one last trick up his sleeve?

Arya was pathetic, didn't sleep until she said Cersei's name ever since she's been on the run but suddenly got afraid of Sandor saying ''If you stay with me you die''

Jon Snow showing signs of Jamie Lannister but worse, clearly a pending Queenslayer + Kinslayer.

That's my rant, don't worry there's more for the discussions.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far I couldn't muster the strength to write anything here about the individual episodes, I was just so underwhelmed by them, but this one broke me a little. I must write this out of myself even if nobody responds to it. Before this season started, I was 100% sure that this series couldn't dissapoint me any further. I was sure that I have seen the depths  of the stupidity and the empty, empty speactacle that this show has become over the years. I really thought that this season was going to be maybe a little bit better even than the previous few, beacuse really, how can you screw this up? You have all your players, the battlefield and the stakes have all been set up, the season practically writes itself, right?

WRONG. In the name of, I don't know what, maybe shocking the audience, the infinitely incompetent makers of this show (in the screenwriting department mostly) decided to go against their own plot, their own character arcs, their own shit that they had made and set up and just do WHATEVER THE HELL THEY FEEL LIKE DOING. The ONLY, and I mean ONLY, consistent thing in this show is that NOTHING IS CONSISTENT. NOTHING happens for any reason, there is no consideration for the plot, the drama, the character motivations and arcs, for ANYTHING. Random shit happens in (sometimes very badly lit) scenes with expensive CGI dragons. That's it! That's the whole show! The rest is nonsensical nonversations between people(?) who used to be characters in a TV drama. 

I'm sure that everything that can be said has already been said about the utter shite that was the first four episodes, but this newest one I haven't read anything about yet, so these are my thoughts about an hour after watching it. 

Varys, the Great Schemer, decides to tell all his schemes to everybody now (btw, what was up with that little girl at the beginning?). Fantastic. And btw, why exactly did he burn the incriminating evidence before they came for him? He KNEW they were coming for him, he heard it and he knew that they knew. Whatever, like I said, nothing happens for a reason. Then Dany just burns him. What was the ultimate point of this character in this show? Was he an avatar of the little man who suffers under the lords who opress him? And of course he is vindicated later in the episode, but more on that later. Now, if he was a champion of the commonfolk, who tried to serve them, maybe he should have tried harder? Like there were a thousand more clever ways of dethroning, assasinating or removing Dany to protect The People. But he chose the stupidest one: just telling everyone (except Dany, but that doesn't go without saying in this show)  that he turned on her. Nevermind, he's dead, no one will mention him again, it's like he never existed. 

Now on to Jon and Dany, and they are perhaps the stupidest people on this show, and that's saying a lot. I mean, it's fine that Varys didn't like the ides of them getting married (actually, it's not fine, his reasons for doing so didn't make any sense but whatever), but how come they don't even think of it?!! It's really THE most obvoius solution to an already contrived problem and it would literally solve all conflicts around who should sit on the iron throne. And if they happen to have a baby or two despite Dany believing it to be impossible (btw, in the show, the witch NEVER told her that she wouldn't have any more children, that was only in the books, but D&D didn't even bother to properly rewatch their own goddamn show before making season 7), all the better, right? WRONG! We need some drama, some conflict guys, so let's make Dany stupid and mad, and Jon even dumber (if that was possible).

Tyrion saving Jaime was stupid, not in the idea maybe, but in execution. First of all, Jaime being there and then getting captured in the first place nullifies any semblance of a character arc that he had left. I thought we've been through this guys! He's over Cersei, he redefined, even maybe redeemed himself. Nope, he's just "addicted" to Cersei apparently, so he goes back to his season 6 (and 1 and 2 and 7) persona, he just wants to be with Cersei, to hell with everything else, it's them against the world! Right. And he cares for his unborn child too I suppose, because he was so devastated about Tommen and Joffrey, I mean Myrcella before. Well 1 out of 3 incest children ain't too bad, am I right?

Anyway so Tyrion frees him so he can talk Cersei into giving up and then they can escape and sail into the sunset together or whatever. And he does all this because he is CONVINCED that Dany will win, and we know now that she does eventually, but how does Tyrion? I'm sorry, but "he defended the city once" doesn't cut it for me, mostly because Dany doesn't win in the end because of some secret route into the city or anything like that, she just blows shit up. More than that, at this point we, the audience don't really know how many troops does Dany have left (really lot apparently) and what little we HAVE seen of the dragons in battle, has been rather underwhelming and she only has one. So this confidence on the part of Tyrion is really unearned. 

Moving on, after a supposedly touching farewell between the brothers (I can't really feel it despite the actors' best efforts, I wonder why), the battle begins. And at this point we really have to start appreciating the utter madness that is about to unfold. I guess they were successful in communicating THAT. Madness I mean. Madness and stupidity (I miss you, Tywin). 

I mean, where to even begin? The dragons, I suppose. So now I think it's official that D&D had never had any idea what to do with Rhaegal or Viserion. That's why they made them completely useless and inconsequential. All the countless therories about the three heads of the dragon, or about who are going to be the other two dragon riders were completely wrong, The three dragons (except Drogon) never had any purpose, or depth, they were just very expensive props. Viserion and then Rhaegal lived and died like they never existed. Dany didn't mourn for them, didn't really acknowledge them except one time maybe in season 4. 

But not Drogon of course. He IS the star of the show (and this episode especially) after all. While the other two went down like flies, he is practically indestructable, and he spits exploding fire like he has an atomic bomb launcher in his lungs. Really, it was ridiculous. I mean, they had like a million scorpions, and not one, I mean NOT ONE hit him??! All the while last episode Euron hit Rhaegal twice! TWICE! So what the actual hell? 

And while dragonfire didn't do much against the ice zombies or the white walkers (I thought that was their WEAKNESS) it apparently can explode now and it can cut through and blow up stone like it is hot butter. What is the actual power level of a dragon in this show, really? Whatever they need it to be for the curent plot, that's the answer. There is no rhyme or reason to it, a dragon in this show is now an unstoppable force of nature because they need it to be one. Creatively it made sense to them to do this, because they wanted it to happen.

OK what else? Honestly, we don't really have much beyond all the fluff. Arya and the Hound arrive at some kind of a conclusion in their respective character arcs(?), that being revenge isn't really worth it and it consumes you? But the Hound is too far gone to turn back, and Arya isn't? And he helps her in realizing that?  I mean I'm guessing that is what they were going for. To be fair (and it is very hard to be that at this point), their goodbye scene was probably the best part of the episode, if there is such a thing.    

But back to the craziness, and we have more than enough of that. So Dany wins, because Drogon is unstoppable and all of Cersei's soldiers forgot how to aim. The Lannister soldiers surrender, they ring the bells. It seems like everything is fine, until Dany officially becomes the Mad Queen and burns the whole city. OK. So, I know almost everyone with half a brain saw this coming (or read the leaks) because this show can't foreshadow anything subtly. But it was still stupid. If this was the direction they were going in, they should have seeded it much better a long time ago. But they didn't, despite what some fanboys of the show would say (seriously, I dare anyone to substantially defend this episode or this season in general). Dany burned people before for no reason, but she also freed slaves and up until last episode she acted normally (or as normal as one can in this show). Her characterization was inconsistent maybe, but it wasn't at all a slow sinking into madness like with Aerys. The madness issue literally came out of nowhere last episode! And by the way, what Varys and others considered madness, weren't really mad things. I mean Dany did have a point in wanting to end the Cersei threat once and for all, even if it cost some innocent lives (she didn't give any indication that she meant burning down the whole city to the ground, the fact that it happened doesn't justify Tyrion and Varys believing that in advance, it just means D&D write their plots backwards).  

OK, so Jon doesn't like the slaughter, so he tries to stop his men from joining in, but all of a sudden, his men don't listen to him? Like what happened to the famous Stark, northern loyalty? I guess he replenished his army on the the way to KL with rapists and murderers. I literally laughed out loud when the would-be rapist Stark soldier TURNED ON HIS GODDAMN KING (or Lord or whatever) just because he cockblocked him. What the actual hell? Was he THAT horny? 

Arya escaping with the multiple death fakeouts was really boring mostly, and the white horse in the end was supposed to be some beautiful symbolism, or some shit, but I couldn't care less. 

Finally the long awaited Cleganebowl was mostly what I expected but zombie Gregor looked RIDICULOUS! I mean, what the hell? He didn't look menacing at all, he looked like an overburnt marshmallow! He was kind of cute actually. Oh and I like the way Qyburn died, it was so rushed and inconsequential, a good metaphor for the show as a whole.  

Oh and Jaime and Euron, I almost forgot. OK, I lied earlier. This was the highlight of the episode. I mean, Euron. What WAS this character? He wasn't book Euron at all, so what? He was crazy. He wanted to bed a queen. Any queen really, but preferably Cersei, beacuse he is into blonde MILFS? And he killed a dragon. Seriously, that was all show Euron. And in the end, all I could do was just laugh at him. This guy was such a nothing character, what he said made no sense, what he did made no sense, And his final moments were just as nonsensical. He killed Jaime Lannister (btw he didn't, falling rocks did, like in a bad D&D campaign, wait a minute:huh:...) . That was his big accomplishment? He and Jaime talked twice I believe. He had the hots for Cersei, but after scoring, I don't really think he felt anything for her, he really wasn't the fall in love kinda guy. So why did he say that?

Nevermind, I've ranted enough. All in all, I can say this: this episode affected me more than I thought it would. I thought I had no illusions left. I was wrong. This episode and season made me realize just how much D&D, these two clown hack conmen, duped everyone. GRRM, HBO, the viewers. They never had any talent, any worthwhile ideas of their own, they liked the ASOIAF books, but understood almost non of the deeper layers of the story and they succeeded nonetheless, because they are good used car salesmen. That's what they are. And if anyone says otherwise, just think. Think of what you're seeing on your TV or Laptop or whatever and have good long chat with yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×