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Hodor's Dragon

Protagonist suddenly goes crazy in last chapter of epic

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1 minute ago, Nudu said:

Is this why there are pages of theories about this in the forum for like years? 

There are theories about Danny burning kl after the city surrenders to her? 

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1 minute ago, divica said:

There are theories about Danny burning kl after the city surrenders to her? 

Theories about she is borderline mad and can go rampage any minute. 

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1 minute ago, Nudu said:

Theories about she is borderline mad and can go rampage any minute

Yes.

2 minutes ago, divica said:

There are theories about Danny burning kl after the city surrenders to her? 

Yes -- not about the detail "after surrender" but in general, yes.

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Just now, Nudu said:

Theories about she is borderline mad and can go rampage any minute. 

On rampage againt innocents? Like children? 

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6 hours ago, Centurion Piso said:

I think it fair to say that Benioff and Weiss created their own characters.  I love Dany and this is not her in the books.  Benioff and Weiss just caved in to the haters among the fandom.  

Idk...they spoke about the 3 twists that GRRM gifted them with. They said it would be a pretty big one so this was probably it. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Tears of Lys said:

There was always the fear that Dany would go the way of so many of her family did, toward madness, that is.  But her final descent was not portrayed in a reasonable way, just as Jaime's character arc was not, just as so much of this story was not. 

I found myself wondering at the exchange between Dany and Jon in this episode.  He pulled back from her . . . why?  And she visibly chilled and said something about, okay, FEAR, then!  I mean, WHAT?  Did she slip him the tongue and it hit a sore tooth or what the hell happened? 

Just so many things felt WRONG, I don't know where to start.  But it's been that way for a long time, so I'm not too surprised, really.

Most probably it's a clumsy reference to Niccolò Macchiavelli, "The Prince", where Macchiavelli wrote that for a ruler:

“it is much safer to be feared than loved because ...love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.”

Yet for Macchiavelli the subject was not so simple as apparently referenced by D&D. In fact he elaborated on it quite a lot. The following sums his reasoning up much better:

"It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both."

In Dany's case D&D wanted her to choose to rule by fear because she has no one's left she feels she can trust or loves her and portrayed the (complex) subject in their own clumsy manner.

 

Edited by elanmorin

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10 minutes ago, divica said:

On rampage againt innocents? Like children? 

It happens quite a lot in the US with all this massacres and school rampages. People shooting colleagues and class mates. This is what snapping and insanity is about.

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16 minutes ago, divica said:

There are theories about Danny burning kl after the city surrenders to her? 

Her father, "Burn Them All'.

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9 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Her father, "Burn Them All'.

And everybody is always saying how different she is from her father... 

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It’s an outcome I expected with an appalling buildup, they have connected the dots but not really in a way that makes much tangeable sense. I complained about Stannis in S5, how he went from considering burning his bastard nephew whom he had never met to awaken a freaking Dragon, but in no way would sacrifice his daughter, to burning his daughter cos ‘bad weather’ I was told at the time that it didn’t really matter because the outcome was the same as it will be in the books and should get over it

 

Here it is, context does matter, reaching c without really adding a and b makes for a poor story. Like I say, expected outcome, decent delivery, undermines by a poor buildup

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5 minutes ago, divica said:

And everybody is always saying how different she is from her father... 

Well then "everybody" is wrong. It gets me how "everyone" says ADWD was an unreadable book and nothing happened, when that is where GRRM started exploring Daenerys' conflicted motivations and subconscious urges started bubbling to near the surface. The show writers are ham-fisted, but they've signalled plenty of foreshadowing over the years. If "everyone" is semi-literate and can't handle characters more complex than 2D comic-book heroes and villains, then "everyone" has been watching the wrong show and reading the wrong books.

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"Foreshadowing" over the years - f.i. with all these majestic pictures of Dany riding her dragons?

"Foreshadowing" by making the audience so much love the dragons, that they applaud and hail each and every appearance of them?

"Foreshadowing" with all that wonderful music that always accompanies the dragons?

 

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People said Dany is going to be mad for a reason. Now you've problems with it?

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Posted (edited)

This was almost worth it just for the Dany fan tears. :bawl: :D

No but seriously, anyone who thinks this is not a GRRM outcome just hasn’t read the books and was expecting a Disney ending as someone already pointed out. The thing that bothers me and is really inconsistent is Jon’s  role in all this and his “leadership”.  WTF? 

Dumb and Dumber are not really good in having the show characters convey their thoughts and feelings. In the books this is much easier, granted, but the show IMO would be more interesting and a higher caliber if they spent more time on character development and less on the visuals. What we get in this series are shows full of explosions and CGI action rather than plot development.

It worked for them apparently. The show has been a great success despite the lazy writing- or maybe because of it. Maybe that’s what most people want in general.  

I was a book reader and that’s how I came to the show. For those of us that did it’s a mixed bag. We get a lot of what is happening because of our experience with the real story despite the changes -and there are a lot. OTOH, Folks who only watch the show aren’t always privy to a lot of the background and are confused when stuff goes down seemingly out of thin air. Again, character build up is not D&D’s strong suit. 

Edited by Green Knight

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The music in the show has always foreshadowed a violent streak to Dany - it moves from being  epic to barbaric often.

She had a vision of  ash falling in the throne room way back in season 2. I think those sorcerers also called her mother of death.

When Jorah told her she had a soft heart she said she didn't and told MM she would die screaming, which she did.

Dario (who loved her more than any other man in the story) knew exactly what she was - an conqueror with dragons.

She had her verging on Hitler speech back after she became the mega dragon riding Khal.

Ayreys wanted to burn KL to stop someone else having it, foreshadowing that Dany my feel the same way.

I am sure someone also called her Queen of ashes once but can't remember/find it.

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24 minutes ago, ummester said:

The music in the show has always foreshadowed a violent streak to Dany - it moves from being  epic to barbaric often.

She had a vision of  ash falling in the throne room way back in season 2. I think those sorcerers also called her mother of death.

When Jorah told her she had a soft heart she said she didn't and told MM she would die screaming, which she did.

Dario (who loved her more than any other man in the story) knew exactly what she was - an conqueror with dragons.

She had her verging on Hitler speech back after she became the mega dragon riding Khal.

Ayreys wanted to burn KL to stop someone else having it, foreshadowing that Dany my feel the same way.

I am sure someone also called her Queen of ashes once but can't remember/find it.

It's been clearly foreshadowed in the books and the show for years, but good luck getting through to Team Dany with that logic. 

I think more than anything the reaction to this episode has shown me just how many people don't understand what this story is about. There was NEVER going to be a fairytale ending. 

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1 hour ago, Torienne said:

"Foreshadowing" over the years - f.i. with all these majestic pictures of Dany riding her dragons?

"Foreshadowing" by making the audience so much love the dragons, that they applaud and hail each and every appearance of them?

"Foreshadowing" with all that wonderful music that always accompanies the dragons?

 

For show-watchers alone, Ned's beheading and the Red Wedding ought to have been hints enough that ASOIAF/GoT is a massive exercise in misdirection and is not suitable for people who lack any semblance of critical faculties.

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I'm still wondering how Dany is now psychotic

It is a completely disingenuous label. In our world, the real world, when someone loses their temper and goes off, no one calls them psychotic or insane. Seeing red is not a sign of mental illness.

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