Protagonist suddenly goes crazy in last chapter of epic

[ron2112]

1 hour ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

I think it was after the loss of her baby to drogo and realising she would never be able to have anymore of her own that she went a bit loop de loop. similar to a cat lady in her 60s without children.

While I've seen this episode a number of times, I must have always missed this......but why does she assume she'll NEVER have children, just because she lost the first one?

[Ice Queen]

7 minutes ago, ron2112 said:

While I've seen this episode a number of times, I must have always missed this......but why does she assume she'll NEVER have children, just because she lost the first one?

Prophecy again.

"When will he [Drogo] be as he was?" Dany demanded.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur, "When the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Daenerys IX, AGOT

[snow is the man]

13 minutes ago, ron2112 said:

While I've seen this episode a number of times, I must have always missed this......but why does she assume she'll NEVER have children, just because she lost the first one?

Because the witch who killed her son and drogo (or basically did) told her so.  That prophecy about dany never having kids. Because that lady had no reason to lie.

[ron2112]

28 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

Because the witch who killed her son and drogo (or basically did) told her so.  That prophecy about dany never having kids. Because that lady had no reason to lie.

Nice catch......I guess I always focused on the Drogo coming back part and not the Dany having more kids part.

[nyser1]

She shows clear signs of being mad way on in the books. Hello to a rude awakening my unsullied friends. 

[Hodor's Dragon]

1 hour ago, ron2112 said:

Nice catch......I guess I always focused on the Drogo coming back part and not the Dany having more kids part.

Don't beat yourself up. You were right. The part about her womb is in the books, not in the show.

Quote

 

"This is not life," Daenerys tells Duur. "When will he be as he was?"

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," Duur said on the show. "When the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind, like leaves."

However, "Game of Thrones" omitted a significant portion of Duur's warning. Here's what she said in the books:

When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves When your womb quickens again and you bear a living child Then he will return, and not before.

 

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/168551/did-mirri-maz-dur-tell-dany-she-cant-get-pregnant-in-the-show

[Hodor's Dragon]

59 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

She shows clear signs of being mad way on in the books. Hello to a rude awakening my unsullied friends. 

No she doesn't.

Name one clear sign of madness in the books. Just one.

[nyser1]

20 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

No she doesn't.

Name one clear sign of madness in the books. Just one.

This has been discussed on various platforms before. Just one? Well chief that's easy....

• Her relationship with Drogo - "
  after being sold against her will to a murdering, raping, and thieving barbarian, she immediately lapses into some kind of stockholm syndrome, and decides to paint a reality for herself where the leader of this band of savages who can't differentiate saltwater from magical poison, is her "sun and stars", a phrase she uses internally during her POV chapters in every book" - from another thread here. - 
• - consents to her brother's summary execution again. 
• Walking into a funeral pyre. If that is not a sign of madness it is probably because it is an example of it.
• Burning a woman alive in the same instance.
• Re-neging on the masters in Astapor and slaughtering them all.
• Crucifying 160 masters..."I did it for the children."
• Jumps on Drogon in the fighting pit

I'm sure there is more, as I have not gone back to read the five books in the past hour.

 

Also interesting: 

 

[Adam_Up_Bxtch]

17 hours ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

Not at all. Every time she is harsh in the books she has a very good reason--and there aren't that many times. She actually comes closer to acting harshly for no reason in the show. Just not nearly close enough to justify anything like this. This was a million miles beyond anything she had done or anything that had been foreshadowed.

It's just bad writing for the main character to suddenly lash out at the end of the story. The person whose character arc has mainly been "free the slaves?" Suddenly wiping out the lowborn en masse? 

You do realize in the books almost every time we see her making decisions, it shows us from her pov. Of course when you're seeing stuff from a certain character's pov they aren't gonna be thinking that what they are doing is wrong.

 

Have you read the Cersei povs?

[Runaway Penguin]

Well that is the thing. There are not clear signs. There are hints. There are also hints that she doies not really see "innocent" on the other side. Heck, already her reaction to Viserys being killed by molten gold is... Fairly chilling. Yes, he threatened her and all, but especially in the books where we see her thoughts.

 

Of course there won't be a huge blinking lights sign "MAD QUEEN ALERT". No, it will be subtle hints... Then less subtle hints... Then obvious hints... And finally the string snaps. The signs were there, but the coin was still up in the air, turning. Today it landed.

 

EDIT: As mentioned in preceding post, her chapters are mostly from her POV and... "Every villain is hero of his own story".

 

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

Why did people think a conqueror could save people? Talk about a contradictory message. This is what all tyrants think they're doing.

[snow is the man]

8 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

This has been discussed on various platforms before. Just one? Well chief that's easy....

• Her relationship with Drogo - "
  after being sold against her will to a murdering, raping, and thieving barbarian, she immediately lapses into some kind of stockholm syndrome, and decides to paint a reality for herself where the leader of this band of savages who can't differentiate saltwater from magical poison, is her "sun and stars", a phrase she uses internally during her POV chapters in every book" - from another thread here. - 
• - consents to her brother's summary execution again. 
• Walking into a funeral pyre. If that is not a sign of madness it is probably because it is an example of it.
• Burning a woman alive in the same instance.
• Re-neging on the masters in Astapor and slaughtering them all.
• Crucifying 160 masters..."I did it for the children."
• Jumps on Drogon in the fighting pit

I'm sure there is more, as I have not gone back to read the five books in the past hour.

 

Also interesting: 

 

Her brother was dead the moment he threatened her in front of the khal and given everything he did I can't blame her.

The funeral pyre is way different then this but I will let you have that one.

Burning a women alive who just killed her husband and son and using that life to hatch her dragons is brutal but not insane.

Going against the masters in astapor wasn't insane. You can argue the ethics about going back on her word but she ordered her unsullied to kill the  male masters. There were innocent people killed but it was meant to kill the people who she had seen commit horrors. Again brutal but not insane.

The masters in merreen was an eye for an eye and again it was brutal but far from insane.

I see her getting more brutal but she isn't gonna turn out to be like aerys.

[Hodor's Dragon]

15 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

This has been discussed on various platforms before. Just one? Well chief that's easy....

• Her relationship with Drogo - "
  after being sold against her will to a murdering, raping, and thieving barbarian, she immediately lapses into some kind of stockholm syndrome, and decides to paint a reality for herself where the leader of this band of savages who can't differentiate saltwater from magical poison, is her "sun and stars", a phrase she uses internally during her POV chapters in every book" - from another thread here. - 
• - consents to her brother's summary execution again. 
• Walking into a funeral pyre. If that is not a sign of madness it is probably because it is an example of it.
• Burning a woman alive in the same instance.
• Re-neging on the masters in Astapor and slaughtering them all.
• Crucifying 160 masters..."I did it for the children."
• Jumps on Drogon in the fighting pit

I'm sure there is more, as I have not gone back to read the five books in the past hour.

 

Also interesting: 

 

To sum it up, this is crazy shit:

(1) Falling in love with somebody you don't like is insanity. Mmmmkay!

(2) Her crazy brother who was about to take her down with him, and by the way she was a slave among barbarians, how was she to not consent?

(3) Are you shitting me? She walked into a funeral pyre because a dream told her to, it worked, she wasn't injured, she came out with baby dragons. This is what I call destiny in a fantasy novel, not insanity.

(4) After everything Mirri Maz Dur did, including blood/death magic, lying to her, tricking her, "saving" Khal Drogo, you think it's insanity to execute her? Mmmmkay!

(5) Deposing the maters in Astopor, getting the unsullied for free, freeing the slaves: that was insanity, too, I see. Mmmmkay!

(6) Crucifying 163 masters. A little harsh, yes, but there are NUMEROUS good reasons for that. I'm not going to go into it in detail, but it was imminently justifiable.

(7) Why was it crazy to jump on Drogon in the fighting pit? Drogon dies otherwise. You're saying she should've let Drogon die so she could say and be a happy wife of the dude trying to poison her?

Thanks for playing, you've really helped me make the point that the "Mad Queen" book theorists are crackpots. This stuff is very simple to rebut.

[Nightwish]

4 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

Her brother was dead the moment he threatened her in front of the khal and given everything he did I can't blame her.

The funeral pyre is way different then this but I will let you have that one.

Burning a women alive who just killed her husband and son and using that life to hatch her dragons is brutal but not insane.

Going against the masters in astapor wasn't insane. You can argue the ethics about going back on her word but she ordered her unsullied to kill the  male masters. There were innocent people killed but it was meant to kill the people who she had seen commit horrors. Again brutal but not insane.

The masters in merreen was an eye for an eye and again it was brutal but far from insane.

I see her getting more brutal but she isn't gonna turn out to be like aerys.

Yes, it’s funny how so many fans now had foreshadowed her fight to survive and to advance herself in a crazy world made by savages, warlocks, slavers as turning crazy or mad. In few more posts they are going to foreshadow it in the way she blinked her eyes.

[Hodor's Dragon]

15 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

You do realize in the books almost every time we see her making decisions, it shows us from her pov. Of course when you're seeing stuff from a certain character's pov they aren't gonna be thinking that what they are doing is wrong.

 

Have you read the Cersei povs?

Everything in the books is from a POV. Generally speaking, Martin's POV narration is fairly reliable, and in fact occasionally slips into omniscience. Dany's POV is one that definitely appears overtly reliable--you always have to take POV narration with at least a small grain of salt, but she is constantly questioning herself. That's not the sign of an unreliable narrator.

[nyser1]

1 minute ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

To sum it up, this is crazy shit: Subjective

(1) Falling in love with somebody you don't like is insanity. Mmmmkay! He raped her repeatedly.

(2) Her crazy brother who was about to take her down with him, and by the way she was a slave among barbarians, how was she to not consent? Speculation.

(3) Are you shitting me? She walked into a funeral pyre because a dream told her to, it worked, she wasn't injured, she came out with baby dragons. This is what I call destiny in a fantasy novel, not insanity. This one sums up your post. I imagine you would do the same after a dream?

(4) After everything Mirri Maz Dur did, including blood/death magic, lying to her, tricking her, "saving" Khal Drogo, you think it's insanity to execute her? Mmmmkay! Burning someone alive is not considered normal human behavior.

(5) Deposing the maters in Astopor, getting the unsullied for free, freeing the slaves: that was insanity, too, I see. Mmmmkay! Your argument is that the ends justify the means. It is a place called slaver's bay. She broke an agreement and slaughtered people in response. I imagine you have proof that these people are guilty of laws? Each and all?

(6) Crucifying 163 masters. A little harsh, yes, but there are NUMEROUS good reasons for that. I'm not going to go into it in detail, but it was imminently justifiable. I hope you are not in a position to make such decisions.

(7) Why was it crazy to jump on Drogon in the fighting pit? Drogon dies otherwise. You're saying she should've let Drogon die so she could say and be a happy wife of the dude trying to poison her? Running in the middle of a fight to hop onto a fire breathing and flying wild animal. Seems legit.

Thanks for playing, you've really helped me make the point that the "Mad Queen" book theorists are crackpots. This stuff is very simple to rebut. Too bad you were unable to do so.

 

[Ingelheim]

Dany's been going crazy for three seasons now. She had already shown some symptoms in earlier seasons.

I know the writing has gotten weaker with time but it's not like she does a 180º spin out of nowhere. Come on, she burnt the Tarlys alive and she looked pretty crazy back there.

[Nightwish]

5 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Dany's been going crazy for three seasons now. She had already shown some symptoms in earlier seasons.

I know the writing has gotten weaker with time but it's not like she does a 180º spin out of nowhere. Come on, she burnt the Tarlys alive and she looked pretty crazy back there.

She did them a favor saving Westeros from their pathetic existence. 

[CrypticWeirwood]

Perhaps Dany snapped so badly all because Varys's little Martha finally succeeded with her mission to sneak something wicked into Dany's food, and so Dany ended up having a bad trip. The effects of the Spider's venom outlived him, just as the Red Viper's did with Tywin.

All this would be a very GRRM thing to do.

[Nightwish]

9 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

 

Sorry but do you realize that all these show a very special fantasy character and not a mad person. You can’t compare a Valyrian descendant whose ancestors rode Dragons and had conquered all Westeros with a normal person. Unless you can hatch dragons.