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Snormund

They ruined Jaime once and for all

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Posted (edited)

Why though? Because he tried to save lives, lives of people he care about? Because he didn't choke to death a pregnant woman? :bs:

Edited by martianmister

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Posted (edited)

There was no redemption at all, it's just Brienne seduced him. And he went North to just to be with her.

Edited by Erkan12

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Yea people trying to justify this abomination is beyond me.  If they wanted him to go back to Cerseil, they needed to do a better job of setting it up.  Not this random bullshit that comes out of left field.  If George goes about bringing him back to cersei in this abusive relationship like manner, it will be handled properly, not this sack of monkey shit they wrote here.

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The ending of How I Met Your Mother ruined that series for me - after years of tons of reasons to stay away from the ex, he ends up with her.  Same thing here, actually going back to Cersei to be with her is just poor writing - and if GRRM ends Jaime's arc the same way, I'll say the same thing about it then as well.

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My biggest disappointment from that episode and perhaps throughout the series. Jaime is my favorite character from the books, so to see him return to Cersei as this whipped dog just to die trying to save her was pathetic.

Also, side rant, Euron stabbed him twice and Jaime could barely move. How does he then start running around as if he had no injuries afterward?

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33 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

My biggest disappointment from that episode and perhaps throughout the series. Jaime is my favorite character from the books, so to see him return to Cersei as this whipped dog just to die trying to save her was pathetic.

Also, side rant, Euron stabbed him twice and Jaime could barely move. How does he then start running around as if he had no injuries afterward?

Never underestimate the power of True Love. :stillsick: 

Perhaps he even survived the collapsing of the vault.

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I was one who thought (hoped) that Jaime was going to kill Cersei.  I was wrong.  I really don't know what they were trying to say about Jaime's character.  Did he actually love Brienne?  Why did he say at the end that nothing else mattered?  That he didn't care about the innocents?  Why fight the dead at all, then?  Why not just stay in KL with Cersei, since no one else matters?  

So far, of any of the character arcs, I am most disappointed with Jaime's.  It had some of the most potential, and I really just didn't see this ending for him coming.  Very depressing.  He had a desire to do what was right.  A desire to be honorable, as Brienne is.  But in the end...nothing else but Cersei mattered to him.  Just like in the first episode, when he pushed Bran out the window.  :crying:  What a waste.  And they should have never had him sleep with Brienne, then.  Now it seems like he slept with her, realized "gee, this isn't love after all...I miss my sis", and abandoned her.  Yuck.  

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I thought their ending was rather poetic. They shared a womb together, now they share a tomb. Cersei pulled him into the world, he pulled her into the room they died in. Tyrion said it rather well earlier in the season, "Cersei never fooled you. You knew what she was and you loved her anyway."

To me, his is in many ways still a redemption story.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

I was one who thought (hoped) that Jaime was going to kill Cersei.  I was wrong.  I really don't know what they were trying to say about Jaime's character.  Did he actually love Brienne?  Why did he say at the end that nothing else mattered?  That he didn't care about the innocents?  Why fight the dead at all, then?  Why not just stay in KL with Cersei, since no one else matters?  

So far, of any of the character arcs, I am most disappointed with Jaime's.  It had some of the most potential, and I really just didn't see this ending for him coming.  Very depressing.  He had a desire to do what was right.  A desire to be honorable, as Brienne is.  But in the end...nothing else but Cersei mattered to him.  Just like in the first episode, when he pushed Bran out the window.  :crying:  What a waste.  And they should have never had him sleep with Brienne, then.  Now it seems like he slept with her, realized "gee, this isn't love after all...I miss my sis", and abandoned her.  Yuck.  

Same here.

But it gets worse: The only reason they made him sleep with Brienne is really to give her the consolation prize. She'll get pregnant, she'll have a boy who looks just like him and.... she'll call him Jaime. Do you want to bet?

They are ruining Brienne's arc too. Like, she went against all he conventions of her world to be what she wanted to be and then in the end what does she get? Abandoned for a more beautiful woman and single mother. And they'll call it a "satisfying conclusion" for her.

Great! Thanks D&D!

Edited by Ranger Kragin

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I don't think it was out of character for Jaime to run back to Cersei. They're twins, and that's a powerful connection. They have a long history together, as well as three (now dead) children. We all know people in toxic relationships in real life who can't break away from each other. I don't think he ever loved Brienne in a romantic way (their hookup should never have happened). He respected her. While I did find their death scene a bit anticlimactic, I didn't think it was out of character for Jaime to reunite with Cersei.

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8 hours ago, Snormund said:

Fuck redemption. Fuck character development. Fuck the first part of last episode where Jaime was seemingly getting a happy ending with Brienne. Nope back to Cersei because...well just because. 

 

Oh and also he can teleport. 

Actually yeah. He left WF when he learnt of Rhaegals death. So are we to believe that it took them 3 weeks from Rhaegals death to decide ‘its time to negotiate with Cersei’ 

 

Orr

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14 minutes ago, Lady Dayne said:

I don't think it was out of character for Jaime to run back to Cersei. They're twins, and that's a powerful connection. They have a long history together, as well as three (now dead) children. We all know people in toxic relationships in real life who can't break away from each other. I don't think he ever loved Brienne in a romantic way (their hookup should never have happened). He respected her. While I did find their death scene a bit anticlimactic, I didn't think it was out of character for Jaime to reunite with Cersei.

I think I could have bought the 'dying in each others arms' thing more easily, if Jaime hadn't gone  back with the express purpose to save Cersei.  If he had gone back to try to reason with her, use his influence, etc., and then its too late and the city is falling down upon them...of course he still loves her.  So yes, they die in each others arms, OK.  But the way they did it?  That truly nothing else mattered to him but Cersei...just..."burn them all", after all? I don't buy it at all. 

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There was a moment in the episode when I realized that Jaime is/was/and always will be irretrievably broken.  Since he left Winterfell, there were small improvements to his character that indicated redemption.  He was a broken man, in love with his sister, but now he is on his way to being a better man.  

However, unlike other posters who think Brienne was used by Jaime, I think she was too hard for him.  This pure, virtuous woman who lived her life honorably was a hill too high for him to climb.  Every morning when he would wake up in bed with Brienne, he knew who and what was, and returned to it because it was easy.  It was ineluctable and his sad fate.  His is a sad story.  

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8 hours ago, Snormund said:

Fuck redemption. Fuck character development. Fuck the first part of last episode where Jaime was seemingly getting a happy ending with Brienne. Nope back to Cersei because...well just because. 

 

Oh and also he can teleport. 

He was always obsessed with his sister. It was more than love, it was "like we are the same person" as Cersei said. It was also logical that he would die, as he has done a lot of bad things that he has gone unpunished for. That he and Cersei would die in each other's arms was fitting.

Cersei's end in this story was the one good thing in this episode. Her iron resolve finally breaking, after she had feared nothing for all these episodes since burning the church. Then finding comfort with her brother in the final moments. It was also a nice touch how she walks by the Hound, because he only cares about killing his brother. And Qyburn's loyalty to her, to the end. All good. A welcome reprieve to the illogic of Dany burning the city.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Jarl Halstein said:

A welcome reprieve to the illogic of Dany burning the city.

Illogic? It has been there in front of our nose since Season 2. She saw the Iron Throne in a burnt down room covered with ashes. She screamed the Dothraki she will "burn their soldiers in their iron clothes and burn down their stone houses" - As someon else in this forum wrote, it was Viserys who spoke of "do not waking the dragon", but she has always been the sleeping dragon. All along.

Jaime on the other hand, has been built up for 6 seasons on a redemption path, a path which he has been constantly and steadily walking. Until Episode 4. We have seen how he gradually but steadily distances himself from Cersei. He even says Tyrion he was happy with Brienne (we know this from Tyrion). And then he hears Cersei may win the war after all, and he decides to save his sister????? Where is the logic in that?

Edited by Ranger Kragin

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Jaime's story is perfect. He changed for the better, but at the end of the day he still loved Cersei. That was always his curse.

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21 minutes ago, azor_ahaiii said:

Jaime's story is perfect. He changed for the better, but at the end of the day he still loved Cersei. That was always his curse.

Like an addict loves his addiction, yeah. I guess that was the trick.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Pacala said:

As G.R.R. Martin said every character has feelings, wishes desires same as a real person, is not good or evil.

this explain better 

Jaimie did what every man does, love a woman, more then that love his sister. So the bond is stronger. There is nothing wrong on Jaimie coming back to Cercei. Same as Danny rage.

The problem is not why character does wrong choices, is how D&D delivered those.

Well every real human would stay away from a bitch that wants him killed. End of story. Unless you are in for a suicide. LOL

Jamie's decisions don't sound realistic, don't sound justified and don't sound like they are making a progress nevertheless. 

Edited by Nightwish

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As far as i understand Jaime redemption ark is not about a happy ending. It is about taking responsibility, about acting accordingly to the principles he holds dear (honor, family, the common good, etc...) is about understanding his and Cersei's actions have brought death and ruin to his family and kingdom. All this was thrown away, he came back to square one.

 

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The more I think about it, the more I’m ok with him running back to Ceresi. I think he was still redeemed for the most part, but like so many people he had one really bad flaw that he just couldn’t shake no matter how hard he tried: his love for his sister. 

I really wish he hadn’t broke Brienne’s heart, thy part does seem out of character. But I’m thinking that maybe he hooked up with her to try to forget about Ceresi and he just couldn’t. 

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