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Snormund

They ruined Jaime once and for all

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1 hour ago, Ranger Kragin said:

Illogic? It has been there in front of our nose since Season 2. She saw the Iron Throne in a burnt down room covered with ashes. She screamed the Dothraki she will "burn their soldiers in their iron clothes and burn down their stone houses" - As someon else in this forum wrote, it was Viserys who spoke of "do not waking the dragon", but she has always been the sleeping dragon. All along.

Jaime on the other hand, has been built up for 6 seasons on a redemption path, a path which he has been constantly and steadily walking. Until Episode 4. We have seen how he gradually but steadily distances himself from Cersei. He even says Tyrion he was happy with Brienne (we know this from Tyrion). And then he hears Cersei may win the war after all, and he decides to save his sister????? Where is the logic in that?

The Iron Throne was covered in snow in the House of the Undying.

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11 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

The Iron Throne was covered in snow in the House of the Undying.

...or ashes. You cannot really say. But the throne room without a vault tells you it has been destroyed. Keeping this is consideration, ashes becomes more plausible than snow.

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Just now, Ranger Kragin said:

...or ashes. You cannot really say. But the throne room without a vault tells you it has been destroyed. Keeping this is consideration, ashes becomes more plausible than snow.

It was snow. Everyone and their mother has been saying that it was snow since the episode aired. The showrunners said it was snow and that winter had come.

Moreover, we know it's snow because it is white. And because it leads right into a scene where Dany walks away from the Iron Throne and walks right into a snowstorm beyond the Wall and then into a tent where Drogo and Rhaego are hanging out in.

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10 hours ago, Snormund said:

Fuck redemption. Fuck character development. Fuck the first part of last episode where Jaime was seemingly getting a happy ending with Brienne. Nope back to Cersei because...well just because. 

This was a major disappointment for me. I mean, I can understand why he went back to her. It's hard to extricate oneself from a toxic relationship, especially one that has been going on for so long. Cersei always had her claws hooked deep into him. I didn't care for the Jaime/Brienne romance - I liked their platonic relationship better. That whole thing should have been scrapped in my opinion.

But! I'm still disappointed in him. I was rejoicing when he rode away from Cersei last season to join the battle at Winterfell. I'm also disappointed he didn't kill her. I always imagined they would die together, but after he struck a fatal blow and perhaps she did the same to him. 

Despite my disappointment, I don't think his choice to go back to Cersei necessarily undoes his redemption arc. He wasn't planning on helping her defeat Dany and co., he just wanted to save her or die trying because he loves her. I think it still fits with his development into a more noble, less selfish character.  

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Posted (edited)

Jaime’s golden hand. Guess that was important in symbolism only. No real plot significance otherwise.

Edited by tallTale

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6 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I am disappointed by this too. First it took him forever to leave Cersei, then his whole trip to the North was just to make up with Brienne and then he went back south to save Cersei. After he left in Ep4, I thought he was going to kill Cersei because she was winning the war. I suppose I was mistaken. Jaime is one of my favorite characters on the show, so I am not happy about this ending. I'm sure it will happen in a different way in the books though.

Yes.

 

I disagree. I've always thought that Jaime+Brienne were coming. And I've always thought that Brienne will get pregnant, Jaime will die and Brienne will live on with the kid.

I thought he was going to kill Cersei too and was keeping Brienne from chasing after him. I was like wait....what?

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Snormund said:

Fuck redemption. Fuck character development. Fuck the first part of last episode where Jaime was seemingly getting a happy ending with Brienne. Nope back to Cersei because...well just because. 

 

Oh and also he can teleport. 

 

Cersei is my favorite character and Jamie is a possible second. I loved their ending. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

What should have been Jamie’s “redemption”? Helping the murderous mad queen kill his sister?

Beautiful ending. You just sound mad you didn’t get a normie finish.

Edited by VaderLike

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Halting a character's arc after 7 seasons of developing it to have him revert to who he was in season 1 episode 1 is such a waste. Jamie's slow personality change over the years had made him one of my favorite characters. But the writers mistook stupidity for subversion I guess and gave him a sour, inexplicable ending.

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2 hours ago, VaderLike said:

 

Cersei is my favorite character and Jamie is a possible second. I loved their ending. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

What should have been Jamie’s “redemption”? Helping the murderous mad queen kill his sister?

Beautiful ending. You just sound mad you didn’t get a normie finish.

Yeah man Cersei totally isn’t a murderous mad queen. 

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I didn't mind it too much but they didn't really pull it off. Jaime and Cersei are twins, brought up together, love each other and were of course lovers with 3 (4?) children together. They have a massively fucked up relationship but with family your often more reluctant to hate on them despite their worst traits and ultimately even though Jaime knew Cersei was scum, he also knows her better sides and that what he chose to remember in the end and sacrificed himself for it. Its just that them dying under a fallen cave was massively anti-climatic. 

Easily could have had Euron find out that Cerseis baby was Jaimes and not his, have him strangle Cersei only for Jaime to come, make the save and then die at the hands of Euron saving her, Euron dies too and Cersei gets a better death at the hands of anyone where theirs actual pay off for her being the biggest scummiest nastiest prick of the whole series.

I think the show-writers wanted to show her have some humanity at the end as they were trying to be epic but if your gonna do that then don't build her up as the main villain for seasons upon end and have her take the mantle of the Night King who also went out looking rather pathetic. Anti-climax has been the bane of the main deaths this season - Euron, Jaime, Night King, Cersei, all went out a bit shit.

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3 hours ago, Joey Crows said:

Halting a character's arc after 7 seasons of developing it to have him revert to who he was in season 1 episode 1 is such a waste. Jamie's slow personality change over the years had made him one of my favorite characters. But the writers mistook stupidity for subversion I guess and gave him a sour, inexplicable ending.

So many people seem to think "character development" and "arc" mean either the character turning out well, or turning out how they would like them to turn out. In many works people try and fail to succeed or better themselves, as in real life. And in ASOIAF this is especially true. The list of people whose arc was "ruined" by this standard begins, but doesn't end, with Eddard Stark.

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I actually like what they did with Jaime, I think his arc this season reflects who he really is.

He was always torn between his absolute love for Cersei and his honor. Well this season he did what honor demanded, and was finally able to keep one of his vow, thus making peace with his past and his reputation as an oathbreaker.

Once that was done, he was free to return to Cersei, the one person he loves most, not to fight for her but to be with her until the end.

 

He was never going to kill her, not with his child inside of her. That certainly would not have been the completion of a "redemption arc",

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I actually never liked Jaime and didn't particularly care for his redemption arc. So the only reason this ending annoys me is that the valonqar prophecy wasn't fulfilled.

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Show Jaime is different than Book Jaime, that should be pretty clear by now. He loves Cersei, that's his curse. He's a good person trying to do his best but at the end he's just in love with her, and there's nothing he can do about it.

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Posted (edited)

Just forget about Jaime from seasons 1 to 3 and look at him starting from season 4 because that's when D&D completely changed his arc and character and started to write him on their own. In seasons 4 - 8, was there really a redemption arc? To me it looked like it was 'will he finally get away from his sister' arc, which wasn't even an arc but an audience bait: will he or won't he? I mean, for 4 seasons he was doing nothing but pleasing Cersei and proving his love for her. What redemption was there? 

People have long been saying that since season 4 Jaime's redemption arc was postponed for plot reasons. Well, actually it wasn't postponed, it was cancelled. And not now but back in season 4, when his character stopped being about becoming better and started to be about a good man being enthralled by an evil woman. With the main question to be - will he escape her charms or not.

Edited by Dofs

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13 hours ago, Ranger Kragin said:

@Nerevanin You're in good company, I was mistaken too. The fact is they literally erased seasons 3 to 8 (until episode 3) in 30 minutes. Jaime's redemption path started from the moment he lost his hand to save Brienne from being raped. It has been a steady path towards self-discovery and redemption until leaving Cersei for good. 

Only to hear: "Sorry pals, he's irredeemable, didn't you know? No? Well, the shows demands it. Nobody likes a redeemed hero."

I never really knew what bad writing was until tonight.

Do you want to make him die? Fine. Kill him off, but let him die a hero. He f***ing deserved that.

I'm truly speechless.

:agree:Yup, letting down his guard and talking to Brienne about how he became the "King Slayer" was the beginning of his transformation. His progress continued when he saved Brienne and then later when he sent her off to save Sansa and Arya. Leaving Cersei completed his change of character, but then Dumb and Dumber crapped on everything. 

I mean why the hell would he back to her now, after she betrayed all of them, and after she hired Bronn to have him killed? Is he really that stupid that he didn't put 2 and 2 together to realize who offered Bronn Riverrun? 

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I keep going back to him saying to Brienne, "Cersei is hateful, and so am I." Jaime had done terrible things. Yet he was redeemable. Why would he not believe that Cersei could be redeemed as well? Would he really have been a redeemed character if he had let the mother of his children and unborn child die scared and alone?

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21 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

Sandor redeemed himself to an extent. He learned to care about someone/something other than himself and his revenge, and helped Arya to put aside her revenge. I actually like that better.

I could not comprehend that part. Why would the Mountain wanted to face him... Sandor was the one holding grudge, him heading back to face his bro did not make sense but it least it was not totally out of the blue. Gregor abandoning Cersei to face him tho. Just why. Why would he even care. Sandor was just another flea for him.

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15 hours ago, Greywolf2375 said:

The ending of How I Met Your Mother ruined that series for me - after years of tons of reasons to stay away from the ex, he ends up with her.  Same thing here, actually going back to Cersei to be with her is just poor writing - and if GRRM ends Jaime's arc the same way, I'll say the same thing about it then as well.

I thinks that it is more that one disagrees with what happened than it is poor writing.  Stating 'poor writing' is merely a cop-out.

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