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They ruined Jaime once and for all

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20 hours ago, Makk said:

Jaime was the first character they ruined and that happened a long time ago imo. As soon as he arrived back in kings landing before the Sansa-Tyrion wedding instead of after it he became a completely different character from the books since he immediately broke his vows again. It was a great pity because I felt the actor really nailed the character up until that point.

In the name of fairness, Jaime did arrive in King's Landing after the Sansa-Tyrion in the show. I believe Jaime arrived in King's Landing in the finale and Sansa and Tyrion were married in the episode before the Red Wedding which was episode 9.

However, what IS different is the fact that, in the show, Jaime arrived before Joffrey's wedding. Whereas in the books he showed up after the Purple Wedding and during Tyrion's trial proceedings.

 

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I was pretty disappointed in how they ended his arc. I used to hate Jaime with a passion, but little by little I began to soften up on him. If this is how it really ends it’ll be sad to see. Basically it was all for nothing and like Homer Simpson he didn’t learn a thing...

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27 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

I was pretty disappointed in how they ended his arc. I used to hate Jaime with a passion, but little by little I began to soften up on him. If this is how it really ends it’ll be sad to see. Basically it was all for nothing and like Homer Simpson he didn’t learn a thing...

He learned that he actually loved his sister with all her flaws.

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1 hour ago, Roza Ahai said:

He learned that he actually loved his sister with all her flaws.

And had that love tested for perhaps the first time. On his end, obviously.

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37 minutes ago, Demetri said:

And had that love tested for perhaps the first time. On his end, obviously.

Can you really say that a one-sided love is love?

Unfortunately for humanity, the answer seems to be a "no."

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His arc played out the way it was meant to. Lots of people seem to want everyone to be redeemed. That doesnt always happen because everyone is imperfect. Think of it like going on a diet or training regimen. You start off strong, you convince yourself you're gonna follow through all the way and then one day you cave and go for the junk food and get a bit lazy and stop hitting the gym etc.

 

Jaime was never a perfect man, and it's reasonable that he sort of reverted back to his old self. It would be dull if everyone just had this big success story behind them.

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7 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Can you really say that a one-sided love is love?

Unfortunately for humanity, the answer seems to be a "no."

That's what it is in his mind, which is what I was speaking to.

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1 minute ago, Demetri said:

That's what it is in his mind, which is what I was speaking to.

It's sad though.

Hasn't his love for Cersei already been tested? Hasn't he already proved himself multiple times over?

Why does it need to happen again?

smh

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Posted (edited)

I see Jaime's positive side in this ending. He stayed loyal to his love and came back when Cercei needed him the most, and killed Euron on his way back to Red Keep. He wasn't loyal to King Aeries, but redeemed to be loyal to Queen Cercei.

Edited by Roza Ahai

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I hope this doesn't happen in the books, that's all I'm saying. They really ruined nearly 5 to 6 years of character development for both him and Dany in one episode.

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I don't really get how book Jamie dumping Cersei because she cheated on him makes Jamie redeemed in any way. He's still fighting for the Lannisters.  He supports a King he knows is a bastard.  Loving his sister isn't something he needs to be redeemed from. It's gross, and she's evil.  But that in and of itself doesn't make Jamie bad. 

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19 minutes ago, Roza Ahai said:

I see Jaime's positive side in this ending. He stayed loyal to his love and came back when Cercei needed him the most, and killed Euron on his way back to Red Keep. He wasn't loyal to King Aeries, but redeemed to be loyal to Queen Cercei.

His disloyalty to King Aerys was seen as a positive attribute. Why are you whitewashing it to be positive?

Queen Cersei is worse than King Aerys because Queen Cersei destroyed her own family and alliances just because she's power hungry and it feels good to please herself.

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1 minute ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

His disloyalty to King Aerys was seen as a positive attribute. Why are you whitewashing it to be positive?

Queen Cersei is worse than King Aerys because Queen Cersei destroyed her own family and alliances just because she's power hungry and it feels good to please herself.

It was seen by Jaimee but not by Kingsquard. Aerys destroyed his family, too. He raped his wife, she had to flee to Dragonstone. He kept Rhaegar's family as hostages. You know what happened to them. He could save their lives by sending to Dragonstone. Cercei is evil, but she still his sister. 

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I've said many times in this board that Jaime's story is the story of a man who's been abused by a partner. If you ask Jaime all the questions that people get asked to figure out if they're in an abusive relationship ("your partner isolated you from others?", "did s/he keeps you away from your children?", "does s/he use sex to manipulate you?", etc), he'd answer "yes" to most of them. And, don't tell me "it can't be because he's a man" because there are many cases of men being victims of abusive women. It's a reality, it happens.

The reason why 50 Shades gets so much hate is because the author tried to make a romantic and kinky story between a dominant man and an ingenue, but she's such a terrible writer that she what we have is an authoritarian jerkass abusing a moron. And, unintentionally, the marketing departments of the both the books and movies have ended up glamorizing an abusive relationship. And HBO has done exactly the same with Jaime and Cersei because they keep insisting that this uneven relationship is about love when it's not, if any, it's about toxic love and codependency.

I think Martin's intention when he wrote the dynamic between C and J was to prove that, even though Cersei is a woman and men hold more power in Westeros, sh's still able to cause harm and become that same thing she claims to hate. And rather than a redemption of his bad actions, jaime's mean to represent what it feels like tryng to walk away from your abuser. I've actually read about victims who've become accomplices of their abusers in crimes because they were so dependent of them than any sense of morality was dismissed and overshadowed by the need to please the partner.

Imagine if HBO had decided that Sansa needed to save Ramsay, or that she had fallen in love with him at the end. I guess a competent writer could have managed to make work a storyline like this, I dunno, but we know that D&d are not remotely talented or sensitive to do so. And if they had done so, people would be rioting on the streets because they dared to portray an abusive relationship as a loving one. And yet, you don't see much people complaining that Jaime was changed into a man who loves his abuser to the point that he willingly ran to her because he loved her and they died together. Until we have the books, this is the image that we have of Jaime Lannister.

 

 

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I see Jaime as a very different character in the show. From the beginning they seem to have defined him soley by his relationship with Cersei. From comments Benioff made after S804 it looks like they interpret him kind of like a drug addict whose addiction is to Cersei. Hence why he sticks with her so much longer than he does in the books. Where he abandons her as soon as he leaves for the Riverlands 

It seems in the show, deep down he is a good person but one who has committed heinous acts due to his 'addiction'. He tells Brienne this when he leaves Winterfell, that all those terrible things he has done or would have done were to be with Cersei. They tease that he may have finally beaten his addiction and will have the chance of a happier existence with Brienne after fighting for the living, but ultimately it ends on a tragic note as he relapses after hearing the news from KL - he realises he can't beat his addiction - his love for his sister- and returns to KL to die with her. 

I understand what they were trying to do. But this is a horrible simplification of the book character and there's no way I expect his arc to end the same way. I firmly believe he will kill Cersei before dying himself, preventing a wildfire tragedy and fulfilling the Valonquar prophecy. I'm reading Feast again at the moment and in the Riverlands Cersei is barely on his mind. His thoughts are far more occupied with his honour, his past as a Kingsguard Knight and his debt to Catelyn Stark. Just a totally different character who certainly isn't defined solely by his sister 

 

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On 5/13/2019 at 7:43 AM, Snormund said:

Yeah, what a load of shit that was. D+D are obsessed with Jaime and Cersei.  Maybe there’s something they’re not telling us :ack:

I fully maintain one of the Ds has an incest fetish and just didn't have the self control to keep it to themselves, given how much they romanticised both JaimexCersei and JonxDaenerys.

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On 5/13/2019 at 2:07 PM, SuperMario said:

Also, side rant, Euron stabbed him twice and Jaime could barely move. How does he then start running around as if he had no injuries afterward?

The same way Arya took six stabs, dropped into a murky canal, and got healed by a domestic abuser. Or Arya surviving a building falling on her. Anything Arya-related, really.

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On 5/13/2019 at 7:12 PM, Joey Crows said:

Halting a character's arc after 7 seasons of developing it to have him revert to who he was in season 1 episode 1 is such a waste. Jamie's slow personality change over the years had made him one of my favorite characters. But the writers mistook stupidity for subversion I guess and gave him a sour, inexplicable ending.

It's actually even worse than that, because Season 1 Jaime still sacrificed his reputation thoroughly to save the people of King's Landing. Come Season 8 and he's like 'I never really cared for these people all along'.

To me, that's way worse than the going back to Cersei thing.

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3 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

The same way Arya took six stabs, dropped into a murky canal, and got healed by a domestic abuser. Or Arya surviving a building falling on her. Anything Arya-related, really.

Well, I expect it from Arya. She is The Terminator/Wolverine/Deadpool/Luke Skywalker all in one.

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7 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

The same way Arya took six stabs, dropped into a murky canal, and got healed by a domestic abuser. Or Arya surviving a building falling on her. Anything Arya-related, really.

Healed by a domestic abuser?

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