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The Map Guy

The title of the episode is 'The Bells'. This is what GRRM wrote back in Season 2 about bells.

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I think it was a set up between Cersei and Tyrion that no one else knew about ( maybe Qyburn?) Not long after the bells ran out, the wildfire started. I think the plan was for the guards to surrender, Dany and her crew to walk triumphantly into KL and to be blown to pieces by Wild Fire.

Jaime was sent ahead to get Cersei out of harm's way and ready to return after Tyrion and the guards had secured the keep.

Tyrion never gets against his family, he is his fathers true born son. 

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6 hours ago, LearnToBeNoOne said:

I mean the way he went on about them with such emphasis I'm willing to entertaint that idea. Dany clearly didn't trust him at least we saw that much.

It's not so much about Dany clearly didn't trust Tyrion. It's more about the fact that she clearly didn't trust the bells.

Why would she? Cersei plays dirty trick after dirty trick only to follow it up with another dirty trick. And Daenerys has done nothing but suffer at the hands of each dirty trick.

Why would she trust the bells of surrender when Cersei hasn't personally surrendered.

11 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

 

Davos' first line.

Yes ... GRRM wrote this script back in Season 2.

 

Thank you D&D for that super epic long moment of everyone hoping the bells would ring into King's Landing's official surrender. Way to keep it consistent.

Interesting.

This makes D&D even more stupid.

The bells in King's Landing are used to herald a royal birth, a royal death or it is to act as a warhorn. Warhorns never signify surrender.

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8 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Davos: "I never known bells to mean surrender."

That's it. 

The pivotal question is whether Tyrions set the bell thing up to betray Daenerys? Was he true or not?

I don't think I have agreed with a single thing you have wrote about D&D writing a good story this season or Dany going mad justifiable this season. But if D&D are playing some crazy 4D chess and they actually remember this call back and they mention it in Tyrion's possible trial next episode.

Then good on you man, better than me.

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1 minute ago, btfu806 said:

you have wrote about D&D writing a good story this season

GRRM wrote the storyline and that is great. The essential developments of the main characters are done by GRRM. 

DD did some sloppy writing and told the story a little bit too rushed and with some shortcomings. That does not mean the story in itself is bad. 

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Just now, Kajjo said:

GRRM wrote the storyline and that is great. The essential developments of the main characters are done by GRRM. 

DD did some sloppy writing and told the story a little bit too rushed and with some shortcomings. That does not mean the story in itself is bad. 

GRRM didn't write anything from this season or last. And I would argue the story since his departure has been awful. But like I said, if you're right about that, it's a good call.

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8 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Davos: "I never known bells to mean surrender."

That's it. 

The pivotal question is whether Tyrions set the bell thing up to betray Daenerys? Was he true or not?

 

But there were several shouts of "Ring the bells" from people in the streets, which indicates a will to surrender and a faith in the bells to signify it officially.  D&D should have rewatched their own show.

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1 minute ago, Raksha 2014 said:

D&D should have rewatched their own show.

Maybe they should have.

Does it ruin the entire show for you? It doesn't for me.

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6 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Maybe they should have.

Does it ruin the entire show for you? It doesn't for me.

 

No, since I hadn't remembered what Davos had said about the bells until I read this thread.  But it is indicative of a certain narrative sloppiness.

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6 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

But it is indicative of a certain narrative sloppiness.

Yes, I am afraid so.

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3 hours ago, Prince Jon said:

Just so sloppy by D&D.  

And if it ends up being the same in the book? Just curious if you'll still blame it on D&D...

 

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Posted (edited)

If they ring for the dead kings, do they not ring for a big change in Ruler?

Edited by Flightless bird

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9 hours ago, LearnToBeNoOne said:

Exactly, Davos is one of the more senior members so him saying that carries a lot of importance because he's literally talking from experience.

One of? Who else is left? Lord Royce, I suppose? Other than him, the number of seniors has become pretty low. Almost the entire "adult" generation has been wiped out by this point.

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Correct me if I'm wrong on this... but weren't the main bells of Kings Landing part of the Great Sept of Baelor? Wasn't that destroyed a while back?

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4 hours ago, Kajjo said:

DD did some sloppy writing and told the story a little bit too rushed and with some shortcomings. That does not mean the story in itself is bad. 

I feel like that’s exactly what that means :cool4:

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It is not just that D&D was inconsistent with Game of Thrones.
It is the fact that D&D were blessed with four scripts written by GRRM himself for the first four seasons.
The Battle of Blackwater Bay episode in Season 2 was one of them, and I see it as D&D betraying a gift from GRRM.
They flaunt this betrayal as the official title of last night's episode. This is worst than the Starbucks cup incident.

The TV battle and the book battle had some differences, but both versions were ALL written and approved by GRRM.

The bells, the drums, the threshing oars, the battle on the shore, the "AHOOOOOOOOO" warhorn in the books, that tense moment where that single flaming arrow falling down & down behind the night sky right before the green atomic explosion in the TV show, and even the added final scene with Cersei & Tommen in the throne room.
...... all written by GRRM.

 

GRRM words: "I have never known the bells to mean surrender" - Davos of Flea Bottom, King's Landing 

D&D words: "Ring the bells! Ring the bells! Ring the bells! Ring the bells! Ring the bells! Ring the bells!" for 105 seconds (yes, I used a stop-watch) of over-hyped false tension & inconsistent writing to signal surrender

 

"The Bells" is D&D slapping GRRM's face

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On 5/13/2019 at 12:00 PM, Kajjo said:

Why did Tyrion believe in bells signalling surrender? Why on earth? The Davon quote is so meaningful.

There's no way that Davos quote wasn't significant, it's such a significant war and when he said it there was a clear focus. D&D surely did not forget about that scene or expect us to forget or not bring it up. 

I'm not sure Tyrion did believe that maybe he was under the impression that if Dany at that point lowers her defence anything Cersei may have as a last resort may be activated. 

On 5/13/2019 at 12:00 PM, Kajjo said:

Maybe Tyrion betrays her, too. We already know that Tyrion set Jaime free and that was betrayal, too.

I wouldn't be surprised, if that was his plan it will now be plastered over by Dany's actions from the last episode. If he chooses to switch sides he can now justify it. 

Tyrion has given me reasons to be suspicious but it would be labelled 'speculation.' There's not much evidence but many reasons as to why. In addition to this there's a strong correlation between D&D's bad writing and the way certain characters have declined in quality. 

So has he committed treason? We may never find out. 

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On 5/13/2019 at 3:52 PM, madhikun said:

See, now THIS would be a great twist. Tyrion has never done right by Dany. I don't blame her for not following his awful advice again. 

That's where the show becomes ridiculous, we know it's bad writing that has completely turned Tyrion into a character that can't seem to get anything right anymore. Yet D&D will justify it as the signs of him betraying Dany or at least trying to. 

If I were Dany I wouldn't trust him either yet due to how fast things are progressing and the lack of support received in the North it would not have been well received to execute him - she was probably waiting for an excuse, she did give him a final chance.

Releasing Jaime was him paying his debts - as a Lannister always does but the fact he was willing to let Cersei live can be classed as treason. 

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On 5/13/2019 at 10:52 AM, a girl knows nothing said:

I can't think what he would be setting her up for since they had clearly won the battle when the bells rang.

Yes he freed Jaime, which was a betrayal, but I don't see how that plays into a larger betrayal. I thought he really just wanted to save Jaime, Cersei, and their baby and also prevent unnecessary bloodshed.

Also when the Lannister army yielded, that's when a whole bunch of people started yelling to ring the bells. In this case I think it did mean surrender. What else could it mean if they were defeated?

This. 

Whether or not the bells mean surrender in the books or should have meant surrender in the show is irrelevant because they did mean surrender. 

In order for this to have been some elaborate trick it would have to A) serve some purpose which as far as I can tell it didn't. & B) Tyrion would have to have all the townspeople in on it because it was them screaming to ring the bell. Why would they say that unless it meant to surrender? 

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