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Daenerys has always been a killer

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48 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It would have been rather, messy, I imagine. Arya is practised at cutting throats, whereas Sansa would probably need several goes.

What a totally stupid plot line that was, don't remind me.  Sansa so stupid she considers killing her own sister, and has to be told by Bran in the cut scene, that she's being played [again] for a fool, all for 2 minutes of fake suspense, like anyone in the audience really thought Sansa would kill Arya, and then Arya Stark serving as the executioner, then to top it off, LF dying like a sniveling coward, after having done nothing at all of interest.  

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19 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

What a totally stupid plot line that was, don't remind me.  Sansa so stupid she considers killing her own sister, and has to be told by Bran in the cut scene, that she's being played [again] for a fool, all for 2 minutes of fake suspense, like anyone in the audience really thought Sansa would kill Arya, and then Arya Stark serving as the executioner, then to top it off, LF dying like a sniveling coward, after having done nothing at all of interest.  

I'm surprised they didn't have Sansa kill her to " subvert expectations"

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3 hours ago, SeanF said:

I'm surprised they didn't have Sansa kill her to " subvert expectations"

They did one better, subverting our expectations by driving the show even further underground to the extent that it stopped working at the most basic narrative level and made any sensible viewer want to subvert their own eyes continuing to receive countless well-deserved accolades for their nuanced, intelligently-crafted, and sensitively-portrayed Emmy-winning drama.

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4 hours ago, SeanF said:

It would have been rather, messy, I imagine. Arya is practised at cutting throats, whereas Sansa would probably need several goes.

She’s not that practiced; only two of her kills before then were throat-slitting: Meryn Trant and Walder Frey. Most of her other kills are poison (Ghita and the Freys)  or stabbing (the five kills she had up to the end of Season 4).

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13 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Just read through this thread again after a couple months have passed. And a lot of the responses are...

This thread is a joke

Initially, I was able to buy into the burning of Kings Landing, as you can see upthread.  I expected there to be some political or military justification for it;  or even, she just snapped under the weight of grief and loss.  If the latter, I would have expected her to be filled with grief and remorse, afterwards. 

But, the explanation we got?  She's some combination of Adolf Hitler and Satan, who wants to conquer the world.  And, Tyrion retconning her anti-slavery campaign as evil.  And, we should always have realised that we were watching the rise to power of an evil tyrant, over Seven and a half seasons. Nah.  That's just insulting the viewers' intelligence.

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9 hours ago, SeanF said:

Initially, I was able to buy into the burning of Kings Landing, as you can see upthread.  I expected there to be some political or military justification for it;  or even, she just snapped under the weight of grief and loss.  If the latter, I would have expected her to be filled with grief and remorse, afterwards. 

But, the explanation we got?  She's some combination of Adolf Hitler and Satan, who wants to conquer the world.  And, Tyrion retconning her anti-slavery campaign as evil.  And, we should always have realised that we were watching the rise to power of an evil tyrant, over Seven and a half seasons. Nah.  That's just insulting the viewers' intelligence.

Yeah I don't have no problem with King's Landing being destroyed. The city is broken beyond repair: Aegon is not and - more than likely never be - equipped to fix it, Kevan and Stannis were prevented from fixing it, Tywin, Robert and Cersei refused to fix it. And Euron (when he takes the Iron Throne) is going to make things worse. By the time the heroes finish things with the Others, King's Landing will be a Lovecraftian death trap.

If the theories concerning krakens and twisted mermen are true (I think they are) and the city becomes ground zero for a greyscale plague, the city may be filled with monsters. Setting King's Landing ablaze may be the best solution. Especially since Daenerys has personal experience with city-wide plagues.

But with what they went for...

It's a joke. Honestly.

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On 5/30/2019 at 9:52 PM, Br16 said:

I think you are spot on. Daenerys has always been (in my opinion) Old Valyria's last hurrah. The combination of magic, dragons, subduing the Neo-Ghiscaris of slaver's bay (mirroring the Valyrian wars against Old Ghis) just screams Old Valyria to me. It seems that Jon  inherited the Feudal Westerosi side of Targaryen Power and Danerys inherited the Old Valyrian Dragonlord side.

On 5/12/2019 at 11:56 PM, adiman83 said:

In her madness, I think Daenerys became what she (subconsciously) always wanted to be - a Valyrian dragonlord. 

She wanted to Make Valyria Great Again.

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On 11/19/2019 at 11:05 AM, SeanF said:

Initially, I was able to buy into the burning of Kings Landing, as you can see upthread.  I expected there to be some political or military justification for it;  or even, she just snapped under the weight of grief and loss.  If the latter, I would have expected her to be filled with grief and remorse, afterwards. 

But, the explanation we got?  She's some combination of Adolf Hitler and Satan, who wants to conquer the world.  And, Tyrion retconning her anti-slavery campaign as evil.  And, we should always have realised that we were watching the rise to power of an evil tyrant, over Seven and a half seasons. Nah.  That's just insulting the viewers' intelligence.

Oh, come on! It has always stared (even screamed) you in the face! Both in the books and in the series. She was going this road, always. You choose to justify your favourite character with "bad writing" and "insulting the viewers' intelligence", it is understandable. For example, I always defend Ned. They say he is stupid and naive, and of course he is, but I still defend him. Dany is ignorant both in the books and in the series sometimes (but in the series she is less ignorant). She sympathized the slaves because she was one herself (well, sort of, at least). In Essos she is a liberator. In Westeros she is a conqueror. Do you know the difference? And yes, Tyrion is telling the obvious truth: her journey is "the rise to power of an evil tyrant", while she was fighting the bad guys and liberating people (If we set aside what has happened to those liberated cities after her liberation, of course) we cheered, we all did (I cheered, too, be no mistaken), but when she came to conquer...we finally see what she really is. I really laughed aloud when she was giving the speech about "breaking the wheel" back then in earlier seasons when she was still a liberator, because even when she was giving it she was already a part of that wheel. Do you know how I knew that? It all is in our history...have you ever heard of French revolution or Russian revolution of 1917?! Ring any bells? You cannot defeat tyranny when you are a tyrant yourself. Since my country suffered Russian revolution and 70ty years of idiotic ruling of those who came after, I actually know what I am talking about. And it is exactly how Tyrion said: we cheered and she grew more powerful (first the Unsullied, then the Dothraki horde...dragons are another thing, they are a miracle after all, nevertheless, they are the most powerful thing in that world) and more sure that she is right. Mix that with unstable state of mind (loss, grief, betrayals, absence of love and another pretender, who is actually a better person than she is and she knows that because she loves that person exactly because of what he is - a better man, honourable and good to the bone) and history of madness in her genes, we got the combo. And yes this is a story of how tyrants come to power! It happens exactly like that, when the masses are cheering and with rivers of blood pouring.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Gala said:

Oh, come on! It has always stared (even screamed) you in the face! Both in the books and in the series. She was going this road, always. You choose to justify your favourite character with "bad writing" and "insulting the viewers' intelligence", it is understandable. For example, I always defend Ned. They say he is stupid and naive, and of course he is, but I still defend him. Dany is ignorant both in the books and in the series sometimes (but in the series she is less ignorant). She sympathized the slaves because she was one herself (well, sort of, at least). In Essos she is a liberator. In Westeros she is a conqueror. Do you know the difference? And yes, Tyrion is telling the obvious truth: her journey is "the rise to power of an evil tyrant", while she was fighting the bad guys and liberating people (If we set aside what has happened to those liberated cities after her liberation, of course) we cheered, we all did (I cheered, too, be no mistaken), but when she came to conquer...we finally see what she really is. I really laughed aloud when she was giving the speech about "breaking the wheel" back then in earlier seasons when she was still a liberator, because even when she was giving it she was already a part of that wheel. Do you know how I knew that? It all is in our history...have you ever heard of French revolution or Russian revolution of 1917?! Ring any bells? You cannot defeat tyranny when you are a tyrant yourself. Since my country suffered Russian revolution and 70ty years of idiotic ruling of those who came after, I actually know what I am talking about. And it is exactly how Tyrion said: we cheered and she grew more powerful (first the Unsullied, then the Dothraki horde...dragons are another thing, they are a miracle after all, nevertheless, they are the most powerful thing in that world) and more sure that she is right. Mix that with unstable state of mind (loss, grief, betrayals, absence of love and another pretender, who is actually a better person than she is and she knows that because she loves that person exactly because of what he is - a better man, honourable and good to the bone) and history of madness in her genes, we got the combo. And yes this is a story of how tyrants come to power! It happens exactly like that, when the masses are cheering and with rivers of blood pouring.

That seems pretty one-sided.  Plenty of people who the narrative invited us to sympathise with killed bad (and not so bad) people, such as Ned, Robb, Arya, Sansa, Jon, Tormund, Tyrion.  Does that make them all bad people, or is that true only in the case of Daenerys?  In fact, Tyrion fought hard to keep a psychopathic usurper and a most unpleasant government in power, and murdered his father and girlfriend, yet somehow had the nerve to condemn Daenerys, and was presented as the main hero of the entire story, the spokesman for the show runners.  Arya claimed "I know a killer when I see one" - well yes dear, every time you look in the mirror.  I guess they "kind of forgot" that they had blood on their own hands.  If it is morally bad to use violence against slave drivers, rapists etc. then it must be equally morally bad to use violence against Freys, Karstarks, Boltons, Umbers etc.

You can't credibly argue that "thou shalt not kill" but then make exceptions for your favourite characters.  This thread is headed "Daenerys Has Always Been a Killer."  So is every single leader in this world.  It's a world at war.

I really don't think that Cersei was going to agree to a democratic election to determine who would rule Westeros, do you?  So, how would you remove Cersei from power?  Do you think it would have been better if Daenerys had just accepted that Cersei was the legititmate ruler of all Westeros?  What are the implications for the Starks and other houses in that case?  Or the implications for the defence of the realm against the White Walkers?

As to the French revolution, I'm quite convinced it was necessary, and overall, beneficial in the long term.

Edited by SeanF

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On 8/6/2020 at 3:34 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

She wanted to Make Valyria Great Again.

Valyria is dead and gone. Build something new that doesn't involve massacring armies and cities. 

On 11/19/2019 at 1:05 AM, SeanF said:

But, the explanation we got?  She's some combination of Adolf Hitler and Satan, who wants to conquer the world.  And, Tyrion retconning her anti-slavery campaign as evil.  And, we should always have realised that we were watching the rise to power of an evil tyrant, over Seven and a half seasons. Nah.  That's just insulting the viewers' intelligence.

How'd she go from being the closest thing to God, and then she becomes Satan? 

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12 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Valyria is dead and gone. Build something new that doesn't involve massacring armies and cities. 

How'd she go from being the closest thing to God, and then she becomes Satan? 

The final script compared her both to Jesus Christ and Her Satanic Majesty.  She's certainly got the range.

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Yeah sure. Danny has always been a killer and easily triggered into a rage. Her shouting how she's going to burn Qarth for not helping her comes to mind.

But this rage was always aimed at almost cartoonishly evil men or at least those who at least were unpleasant towards her. So even if we take Daenerys behavior towards the slavers and the Qarth nobles at its worst then its still not even remotely close to her burning civilians for fun after she's already won the battle. 

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Posted (edited)
On 10/26/2019 at 7:15 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

Compassion and mercy is an important distinguishing feature in the series. Viserys begged for his life, and they were kin. How Dany acted during the execution is in contrast to Sansa shedding tears over executing LF, and Jon killing Dany. She's always had something a bit "off" to me, couldn't put my finger on it...but now we know she was a hidden villain.

So Sansa is cleary a dangerous madwoman, too. The way she looked while she was feeding Ramsay to the dogs... Strange that no-one bothered to kill her to save the North from her...

Edited by Mindwalker

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Posted (edited)
On 5/15/2021 at 1:55 AM, SeanF said:

The final script compared her both to Jesus Christ and Her Satanic Majesty.  She's certainly got the range.

@TheLastWolf won't like that. He seems to dislike Dany worshipers. 

1 hour ago, Mindwalker said:

So Sansa is cleary a dangerous madwoman, too. The way she looked while she was feeding Ramsay to the dogs... Strange that no-one bothered to kill her to save the North from her...

You feel bad for that little **** Ramsay? I don't. He got what he deserved. 

On 5/15/2021 at 9:50 AM, Daemon of the Blacks said:

Yeah sure. Danny has always been a killer and easily triggered into a rage. Her shouting how she's going to burn Qarth for not helping her comes to mind.

 

It's kind of understandable, considering that if they didn't get help her Dothraki and her scaly "children" would die. 

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

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The show waffles a lot on something like revenge, particularly in the final season. Taking revenge is treated as cool with Arya and Sansa does her revenge with a small smile, yet in "The Bells", The Hound says that Arya shouldn't want to take revenge.

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2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

@TheLastWolf won't like that. He seems to dislike Dany worshipers. 

You feel bad for that little **** Ramsay? I don't. He got what he deserved. 

 

Moving goalposts much? I don't feel bad for the slavers, either. The point was you said showing no empathy when killing them indicated madness.

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2 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

Moving goalposts much? I don't feel bad for the slavers, either. The point was you said showing no empathy when killing them indicated madness.

Exactly when did I say that? I just reviewed my posts, and I do not seem to see that. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Exactly when did I say that? I just reviewed my posts, and I do not seem to see that. 

No, sorry, the poster I replied to said that. Still, the issue was not whether I feel sorry for their victims or not.

John also doesn't show emotion when he's executing a kid, but tbh I had no idea whether that was Kit's acting (same as with Emilia).

Edited by Mindwalker

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Just now, Mindwalker said:

John also doesn't show emotion when he's executing a kid, but tbh I had no idea whether that was Kit's acting (same as with Emilia).

You're ignoring what said kid did.......

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