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11 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

I think they could but I wouldn't be so sure they actually will. We know GRRM lies or dodges questions, tries to confuse us. When he was lately asked about it he kept contradicting his statements. 

That's good. I want to be continuously shocked and discombobulated when I read tWOW.

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9 hours ago, Nudu said:

I disagree. They cut so many important plots from the books while adding tones of pointless romance and sex. 

I'm only referring to S8. I agree with you about the rest of the books to a point. The first four seasons stuck surprisingly close to the books. Adaptations of such large, complex books always have to cut because there is just too much source material for the amount of time they have. Peter Jackson would have had to make two movies for each of the LotR books to include everything (I would have loved that personally), and Amazon is going to face the same problem adapting the Wheel of Time books to tv.

As for the romance and sex, not much in the way of real romance, and what's wrong with a little romance? The characters are human beings, after all. Jon and Ygritte's relationship was far from pointless, as is his and Dany's. But yes, the sex is gratuitous, but this is HBO and that is the audience they cater to. But the sex decreased as the show became more successful.

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12 hours ago, GeorgeIAF said:

I agree that the writing in this season and the last is mediocre and they should haven went with 10 episodes each, but i’m more and more convinced that D&D are the scapegoats of the fans anger about the ending. 

The real target is GRRM and his ending (because the main plot points of the TV SHOW will be the same as in the books) is not well received by the fans. I wonder if he’ll decide to change the original ending to appease the fandom.

While I think there is plenty (and progressively more, as time has gone on) of cause for disappointment with the way the show's been written during the last few seasons, to the extent that people are unhappy with the central plot points of the story, I do hope GRRM ignores them, partly because I want to read the story he wanted to write, and partly because scrapping that story would mean waiting even longer for the books to come out (and yes, I am one of those fools who believes the books will eventually come out).

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There was/is so much anticipation and hype and theories... So many years since the last book and we all had to use our heads to fill in whats missing. Most of the fans have each their own theory of this or that, and how this ends. And when it comes its almost certain it isn't how each one of us envisioned it. And we hate it for that, because many of us believe that anything that doesn't match our own ideal ending is condemned to be awful. And we shouldn't. Not our story to tell. 

Also: How many book readers raved when they read the Red Wedding? How many of them cried out "is this fockin Robb's arc? Really? This is his arc?"

But after it sank in they worshipped GRRM for it?

I think it will be the same thing with this.

I for one am very satisfied with the story. There are parts I hate, like plot armor or the constant feeling that certain things needed more episodes to be developed in. But the story, the story is fitting and great.

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We keep saying the plot points will be the same. There is no way that Cersei and Jamie's arcs end with them holding onto each other getting crushed by a building. To me, that scene shows that when given the chance, D&D will interject their own ending. I highly doubt most of the endings are going to be the same as GRRM's, such as Euron's. But that is also my own opinion and we won't know till we have the books.

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Even with all of the plot destruction they caused seasons 5 & 6 they had more than enough for a ten episode s7 and s8 that still would have been crammed. 

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The books have remained vivid in details regarding death, sex, characters, setting and plot.

The tv show always made me jump with the vivid details involved in the death scenes... this was all a bit "meh".

Seven big deaths, but we technically only saw one vivid one... and it was a blink and you miss it moment, and that was Qyburn. 

The details the show gave us in Oberons, Viseries, Ned, Pip, Jojen, Robb and wife, Catelyn and Joffrey deaths are some grizzly moments (I'm just naming a few). Even some of the minor deaths khal Drogo ripping a tongue out... the hound stabbing a guy through the eye... Jaime stabbing Jory through the eye... Arya Killing Meryl Trant. 

Did anyone notice that the scenes cut before seeing any horrific moments this episode..

We see the fire but we dont actually see Varys burn... Euron we didnt see coughing up his own blood and choking... we dont see Jaime and Cersei crushed... nor the splat of the mountain and the hound hitting the ground.... I'm not a gore fan but I think I expected some shock moments that would give me a sleepless night, and leave me feeling a bit disturbed... but I slept like a baby... 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, GeorgeIAF said:

 I wonder if he’ll decide to change the original ending to appease the fandom.

Did he ever anything of a sort?

I only wish the show does not f*** up his writing. It's becoming increasingly difficult for him.

Edited by TwiceBorn

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Quillon said:

D&D failed to produce a coherent & convincing show, regardless of whether we like or don't like any particular end. For everything they do slightly right, more and many things fall apart around it. I think this was the best episode in a very bad last season so far, which is not saying much.

I disagree.  They did create a wonderful show and kept it as such largely through 5-6 seasons (insert snark here as to where exactly it went off the rails).

The problem here is that D&D did what all artists do once they are successful for so long, they attribute all the success to their own selves and not the platform over which they preside.   For example, Charlie Sheen on Two & A Half Men, McCaulay Culkin on Home Alone, Megyn Kelly on Fox News.   

D&D have said that they wanted to end the show so they can move on to other more important adventures or that they were bored with it.   

I have no problem with people getting bored.  But they could have EASILY handed the reigns over to someone like David Fincher & Dennis Villeneuve who would have JUMPED at the opportunity to finish the story "sans-ego" or not rushed.

D&D think they can turn Star Wars around and make it great again.   Maybe they will improve on the Last Jedi but that is a pretty low bar.

But Game of Thrones is a global phenomenon that in my opinion dwarfs Star Wars.  Sure everybody remembers the original trilogy and they certainly did change the world.  But Game of Thrones is a TV zeitgeist of the first order which routinely gets regular superbowl sized audiences on HBO and that's without counting the galactic sized pirated video viewership that is not recorded.

I guess my point is that D&D getting bored, is like Sir Edmund Hillary after climbing mount Everest saying he was bored with climbing and was going to move on and start a local climbing gym business.   

You are the creative directors of the biggest TV epic in human history with the entire world waiting on your product with baited breath every weekend, and you are BORED with it????  What an epic wasted opportunity for something as petty as egos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Edited by Mark the Red

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30 minutes ago, Mark the Red said:

I disagree.  They did create a wonderful show and kept it as such largely through 5-6 seasons (insert snark here as to where exactly it went off the rails).

Somewhere around bad poosey/when they ran out of books/season 5.

I don't care about "why" of it. I suspect the same things about D&D and blame them for many things else but essentially they failed, they couldn't make the last 4 seasons coherent & convincing.

I guess the "wider audience" forgot about the idiotic dorne story & characters teleporting around in the next season so they reminisce even season 5 and 6.

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You know what the real problem is?

I think we will never know. The books are not going to be finished at this rate. Not with 1 book published in the last 14 years.

Some of the plot points are different, some will be the same. I believe its pretty obvious that Show Jaime and Book Jaime are entirely different characters. On the other hand, Mad Dany seems like the ending we are getting for both versions. 

 

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OP

I am not reading his books so he can keep his ending. I started reading the series because of Daenerys and after all this time it turns out she’s just going to be humiliated and dragged through the mud to make the Starks look good. Her whole plot line amounts to nothing. I feel foolish for having wasted a second of my time reading the books or watching the show.

Why should I buy books from GRRM if he’s made it clear that this is his intent?

 

 

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It's a given that with a production of such epic scope, some people will be disappointed. Long time fans have their views on how things will ply down the line.

I do wonder how the books will end up differing form the show. I mentioned elsewhere that I believe the books are playing the long game. The end points may very well be the same or similar, they are just taking a longer route, with more characters being involved.  

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D & D make tv shows, are making an interpretation of a very popular and sophisticated series of books. Consequently, fans of those books (me included) are reacting very harshly when what comes out of that interpretation is more suited for a mass tv audience than for the readers of said books. 

I guess it’s natural to expect more but D & D are not GRRM. At this point I’m just glad they made the show and I’m getting som sort of closure. 

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I may not be happy with how things are going/ended for a lot of the characters but its not just that. Even if they all go the same way in the books (which I doubt) this season particularly has just felt rushed and sloppy. At least be consistent and logical (e.g. Rhaegal getting shot 3 times with scorpions and then next time all the boat and KL scorpions are no problem for Dany and Drogon; Euron magically washing ashore next to Jamie so they can fight; Dany "forgetting" about the Iron Fleet; Cersei not killing Dany and or Tyrion when she clearly had the chance at the gates, etc). It just feels lazy and like everything is an afterthought or hand waved away ("just don't think about it too hard" ). 

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GRRM gets some of the blame for sure. He has every right to spend his time however he wants, and he chose to spend his time in the early goings of the show doing shit that wasn’t Winds related. 

I don’t blame the writers for diverging from Martin’s complex plot, especially since they were on a timeline and he wasn’t. It would have been crazy to try and include his full Dorne plot, Iron Islands plot, (f)Aegon, etc without knowing what the payoff was. They had to trim some of the fat. But I never expected them to be such hacks. Night and day difference between seasons 1-4 and 5-8 in terms of writing and plot. The show became spectacle over intrigue, simplified to the lowest common denominator of fan. I do blame them for that.

For me, the absence of a coherent plot entirely negates the stunning visuals. For other people it doesn’t. Nothing wrong with that.

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On 5/13/2019 at 1:20 AM, Crona said:

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/9/18537794/game-of-thrones-ending-too-quickly-pacing

i found this one

. “[HBO] said, ‘We’ll give you the resources to make this what it needs to be,’” Weiss said. Benioff added, “HBO would have been happy for the show to keep going, to have more episodes in the final season.” But the showrunners refused. “We always believed it was about 73 hours, and it will be roughly that,” Benioff continued. “As much as they wanted more, they understood that this is where the story ends.”

Thank you. 

When you have only an outline as source material that's likely as much, if not more of a mess than the last two books, (as much as I loved them, they were hard to get through and nothing compared to the first three, with more red herrings than actual plot....), then rushing, brilliant character moments, and spectacular cinematography might be your best option.

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On 5/13/2019 at 2:01 AM, Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™ said:

Unfortunately it seems like he is already going to make changes

https://mentalfloss.com/article/578205/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-ending-will-be-different

That's a very misleading headline. 

Quote

"I’ve been so slow with these books," Martin told Rolling Stone. "The major points of the ending will be things I told [Benioff and Weiss] five or six years ago. But there may also be changes, and there’ll be a lot added."

 

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On 5/13/2019 at 2:35 AM, Nudu said:

I disagree. They cut so many important plots from the books while adding tones of pointless romance and sex. 

Important plots like Sansa dying of boredom while far more important Jeyne Poole (who?) is married off to Ramsey as Arya Stark? 

Or the giant red herring of Young Griff? 

Or Marcella's lost ear? 

Or Quentyn Martell becoming dragon BBQ? 

Those important plots? 

Which important plots are you referring to specifically? 

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