Predictions: You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain.

[Bradam]

She's not breaking the wheel per say.. just changing all the spokes to say Targ.  But since she supposidly can't have children that wheel isn't lasting for long.  She dies, right back to square one again.  

[Tyrion1991]

OP

DND did say that there were signs. But really it’s only because Dany had one really bad day. Losing Jorah, Rhaegal, Missandei, having Jon reject her, betray her and feel like she won’t get her crown. That still doesn’t explain her glassing a million innocent people. That still doesn’t explain exactly why NONE of the people of Westeros love her.

Basically if a handful of things had been changed and certain characters had kept their dam mouths shut; none of this would have happened. DND said on making of thrones that this dark side wouldn’t have come out if she wasn’t alone in this moment. If Jorah hadn’t died for example and Dany had stayed by his side as he recovered rather than go by sea to Dragonstone. It’s all highly dependent on chance that Dany finds herself alone.

So this isn’t the culmination of an arc it’s simply a shocking tragedy. 

[Rikard]

Dany made Gendry not just a powerful loyalist in the South but her heir. She is barren and all thoughts of marriage with Jon are gone now that he is repulsed by her mere touch. After her close calls during the battle of Winterfell and the death of Jorah she must consider the likelihood of her death in the next battle. At Dragonstone she is nearly killed by Euron and discovers that Varys is a traitor. She expected it would be Jon. So no trust there.  Ennobling Gendry seems a wise move. His claim is far better than Jon’s which rests solely on Sam’s and Bran’s testimonies. Sam is little known and Bran, if known at all, considered barely human. There are likely many left in the South who fought for Renly and Stannis (Davos for one). They’d much prefer a legitimized son of Robert to some up-jumped northern bastard. At Kings Landing Dany is incredibly reckless, seeking death in battle. Whoever kills her (Bronn, Arya, Tyrion, Jon) she will have already sworn Grey Worm and Davos for Gendry. With the Unsullied, the Dothraki and the Southern lords, Gendry is well positioned to claim his birthright. If Drogon survives he may go on a personal reign of terror against Dany’s killers. The Game goes ever on.

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, Rikard said:

Dany made Gendry not just a powerful loyalist in the South but her heir. She is barren and all thoughts of marriage with Jon are gone now that he is repulsed by her mere touch. After her close calls during the battle of Winterfell and the death of Jorah she must consider the likelihood of her death in the next battle. At Dragonstone she is nearly killed by Euron and discovers that Varys is a traitor. She expected it would be Jon. So no trust there.  Ennobling Gendry seems a wise move. His claim is far better than Jon’s which rests solely on Sam’s and Bran’s testimonies. Sam is little known and Bran, if known at all, considered barely human. There are likely many left in the South who fought for Renly and Stannis (Davos for one). They’d much prefer a legitimized son of Robert to some up-jumped northern bastard. At Kings Landing Dany is incredibly reckless, seeking death in battle. Whoever kills her (Bronn, Arya, Tyrion, Jon) she will have already sworn Grey Worm and Davos for Gendry. With the Unsullied, the Dothraki and the Southern lords, Gendry is well positioned to claim his birthright. If Drogon survives he may go on a personal reign of terror against Dany’s killers. The Game goes ever on.

Not sure how much of this I agree with. Dany just torched KL, women, children, everyone she could. So you are saying that Gendry, an upjumped bastard legitimized by the person who just killed half a million people would be preferable to the survivors over Jon, the one who is likely to kill her? Also, Varys sent out, or may have sent out ravens to everyone he could telling them Jon is Aegon so there is that. I am sure they didn't show us those notes for nothing.

[CrypticWeirwood]

4 hours ago, dbunting said:

Not sure how much of this I agree with. Dany just torched KL, women, children, everyone she could. So you are saying that Gendry, an upjumped bastard legitimized by the person who just killed half a million people would be preferable to the survivors over Jon, the one who is likely to kill her? Also, Varys sent out, or may have sent out ravens to everyone he could telling them Jon is Aegon so there is that. I am sure they didn't show us those notes for nothing.

Can't help but wonder whether they also showed us Varys trying to slip some whacko powder into Dany's dinner for some purpose as well.

Think he used the same recipe on her as he used on Aerys? 

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Can't help but wonder whether they also showed us Varys trying to slip some whacko powder into Dany's dinner for some purpose as well.

Think he used the same recipe on her as he used on Aerys? 

He was trying to but she wouldn't eat anything, likely because she suspected something. And not "whacko" powder but poison.

[CrypticWeirwood]

1 minute ago, dbunting said:

He was trying to but she wouldn't eat anything, likely because she suspected something. And not "whacko" powder but poison.

She clearly had eaten before she got to the city.  There's no way to know whether Martha succeeded, nor what that poison's intended affect was to have been. Think about the poison that Jaqen fed the dog to drive it mad so that it would kill Weese at Arya's request.

[Runaway Penguin]

I find the logic fascinating.

Yeah yeah, she wants to break the wheel of feudals abusing the smallfolk. To do so she... Incinerates a ton of smallfolk and wants the feudals to bend their knee. Yeah, makes perfect sense. Sure thing.

Heck, she did not even make sure that she got Cersei as the major symbol of the wheel. We know she did, but she has no idea. For all she knows, all that time spent burning down KL gave plenty of time for Cersei to escape. If she listened to Mr. Q earlier and let him lead her away, she would get out scot free, have unGregor slice Euron in half before he can stab her brother and sail away.

She is not breaking the wheel. She is changing the wheel to have her in the center. She always had.

[Leonardo]

On 5/13/2019 at 2:52 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

I'm a bit awestruck at the fact that you still believe this to be true.

I'm awestruck you actually think HBO didn't buy the story outline, like we've been told for 9 years.

 

This is, roughly, the ending to George's saga. You're absolutely kidding yourself otherwise, because first off George can't even change it without possible legal repercussions as that means he didn't sell HBO his actual story.

[Ser Gareth]

On 5/13/2019 at 6:39 PM, Gianna Dorenberg said:

It's hard to root for a submissive little ...... (pick a word of your choice).

Book Jon is cool, heck season 6 Jon is ok too even up to the point where he gave no fucks to Dany and refused to bend the knee.

Ever since though, he isn't worthy to be a king.

Book Jon was cool until ADWD.  In ADWD book Jon undertook a personality transplant and became a moron.  Either that or someone warged into him!!

[Ser Gareth]

42 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

I'm awestruck you actually think HBO didn't buy the story outline, like we've been told for 9 years.

 

This is, roughly, the ending to George's saga. You're absolutely kidding yourself otherwise, because first off George can't even change it without possible legal repercussions as that means he didn't sell HBO his actual story.

I don't think HBO would care at this point.  It's the biggest show on Earth and has far exceeded anyone's expectations.

[Rikard]

The massacre of the innocents in "Bells" may have disturbed Jon, Tyrion and Arya, but I seriously doubt the Unsullied and Dothraki felt much sympathy for their victims. Even the Northern Army was in on the pillaging and raping. Their only regret, that it was cut short. A claim to the Iron Throne, however valid under the laws of succession, means nothing without an army to enforce the claim. The Northerners just want their share of the booty and to head home, secure now that the Night King is no more a threat. The Unsullied and Dothraki are fanatical Dany loyalists. If she dies they will annihilate the traitors and rally to her chosen successor, Gendry. The Southern lords will join the side with the best chance of victory. The burning of King's Landing? A necessary act of war. From Troy to Aleppo, with stops at Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, victory is worth any cost to the vanquished.    

[Leonardo]

9 minutes ago, Rikard said:

The massacre of the innocents in "Bells" may have disturbed Jon, Tyrion and Arya, but I seriously doubt the Unsullied and Dothraki felt much sympathy for their victims. Even the Northern Army was in on the pillaging and raping. Their only regret, that it was cut short. A claim to the Iron Throne, however valid under the laws of succession, means nothing without an army to enforce the claim. The Northerners just want their share of the booty and to head home, secure now that the Night King is no more a threat. The Unsullied and Dothraki are fanatical Dany loyalists. If she dies they will annihilate the traitors and rally to her chosen successor, Gendry. The Southern lords will join the side with the best chance of victory. The burning of King's Landing? A necessary act of war. From Troy to Aleppo, with stops at Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, victory is worth any cost to the vanquished.    

I think this is my favorite assessment so far. Kudos to you sir.

 

I think Daenerys will hit back with some backing points for this next episode, even if they are a bit after the fact.

[Hodor's Dragon]

1 hour ago, Leonardo said:

<snip> You're absolutely kidding yourself otherwise, because first off George can't even change it without possible legal repercussions as that means he didn't sell HBO his actual story. <snip>

No, this isn't true unless they claim he changed the ending intentionally for the purpose of damaging them and the show, and that would be pretty night impossible to prove. As long as he didn't do so to intentionally interfere with someone's prospective economic advantage he is perfectly free to change his plot plan 50 times a day if he so chooses.

[Ser Gareth]

5 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

No, this isn't true unless they claim he changed the ending intentionally for the purpose of damaging them and the show, and that would be pretty night impossible to prove. As long as he didn't do so to intentionally interfere with someone's prospective economic advantage he is perfectly free to change his plot plan 50 times a day if he so chooses.

Exactly.  And when you look at Dany's vision in S2, Bran's in S4, this was always happening.  And it wasn't until S5 that GRRM started distancing himself from the show and started his passive aggressive stance towards it.

[Daemos]

54 minutes ago, Rikard said:

The massacre of the innocents in "Bells" may have disturbed Jon, Tyrion and Arya, but I seriously doubt the Unsullied and Dothraki felt much sympathy for their victims. Even the Northern Army was in on the pillaging and raping. Their only regret, that it was cut short. A claim to the Iron Throne, however valid under the laws of succession, means nothing without an army to enforce the claim. The Northerners just want their share of the booty and to head home, secure now that the Night King is no more a threat. The Unsullied and Dothraki are fanatical Dany loyalists. If she dies they will annihilate the traitors and rally to her chosen successor, Gendry. The Southern lords will join the side with the best chance of victory. The burning of King's Landing? A necessary act of war. From Troy to Aleppo, with stops at Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, victory is worth any cost to the vanquished.    

Thank you for that. Dany's actions are necessary to herself, and she remains the hero of her story and to those who follow her. Great reward comes at greater cost, and reforging Westeros was never going to be a cheap endeavor.

[BlackLightning]

Frankly, I always thought that Dany was going to set most of the continent on fire. Not to be malicious but I always thought that she'd either do it on accident, on purpose to stop an even greater evil or on purpose in an attempt to fix something.

Never just for the sake of power or for sh*ts and giggles

[Tyrion1991]

On 5/13/2019 at 8:32 AM, PetyrPunkinhead said:

So, for a show that is (in)famous for subverting expectations, people do not seem super happy about the twist Daeny took in S8E5. So, my question is, when the series is over, S8E6 all said and done--who will be the heroes and who will be the villains, both alive and dead?

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm team Jon Snow, so I think he'll come through on the throne. 

Davos - hero

Tyrion - dead hero

Arya - dead hero

Daeny - dead villain

Greyworm - dead villain

 

 

Because Rob and Ned dying weren’t cheap twists where the character was backed into a corner and presented no way out. Dany is screwed over for the entire season by events outside of her control until she is driven mad. Whereas Ned and Rob as characters made active decisions that led to their downfall. 

Its not Danys decision that Jorah died saving her. Its not Danys decision that she loses half her army saving the North but earns no goodwill doing so. It’s not Danys decision that Jon can’t keep his dam mouth shut for five seconds. It’s not Danys decision that the advisors she listens to are suddenly incompetent and can’t secure a peaceful solution. It’s not Danys decision that the Lords and people of Westeros forget she has three dragons and surrender until she’s entered Kings Landing. It’s not Danys decision that she forgot the Iron Fleet and inexplicably goes to Dragonstone. Dany is mad by the time she makes the decision to burn Kings Landing because she had one really bad day.

It was a cheap move done for shock value.    The show was praised for its complex plot and well developed tragedies. This is not one of them. They have simply taken one of the shows most beloved characters and utterly humiliated them so they can set up Jon stabbing her in the greatest anime betrayal of our lifetime.

[Nightwish]

1 hour ago, Tyrion1991 said:

 

Because Rob and Ned dying weren’t cheap twists where the character was backed into a corner and presented no way out. Dany is screwed over for the entire season by events outside of her control until she is driven mad. Whereas Ned and Rob as characters made active decisions that led to their downfall. 

Its not Danys decision that Jorah died saving her. Its not Danys decision that she loses half her army saving the North but earns no goodwill doing so. It’s not Danys decision that Jon can’t keep his dam mouth shut for five seconds. It’s not Danys decision that the advisors she listens to are suddenly incompetent and can’t secure a peaceful solution. It’s not Danys decision that the Lords and people of Westeros forget she has three dragons and surrender until she’s entered Kings Landing. It’s not Danys decision that she forgot the Iron Fleet and inexplicably goes to Dragonstone. Dany is mad by the time she makes the decision to burn Kings Landing because she had one really bad day.

It was a cheap move done for shock value.    The show was praised for its complex plot and well developed tragedies. This is not one of them. They have simply taken one of the shows most beloved characters and utterly humiliated them so they can set up Jon stabbing her in the greatest anime betrayal of our lifetime.

The last paragraph is gold, if someone wants to say the “demise” of her character was foreseen then they should focus on how the show treats her in the last two episodes focusing on events that wreck her psychology. Not on her previous acts which were in balance with the show’s overall depiction of her character. 

[Daemos]

Dany is attempting to unify Planetos, and you need heat for a melting pot. She is an anti-hero at worst.