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PetyrPunkinhead

Predictions: You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain.

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So, for a show that is (in)famous for subverting expectations, people do not seem super happy about the twist Daeny took in S8E5. So, my question is, when the series is over, S8E6 all said and done--who will be the heroes and who will be the villains, both alive and dead?

Spoiler

I'm team Jon Snow, so I think he'll come through on the throne. 

Davos - hero

Tyrion - dead hero

Arya - dead hero

Daeny - dead villain

Greyworm - dead villain

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

So, for a show that is (in)famous for subverting expectations, people do not seem super happy about the twist Daeny took in S8E5. So, my question is, when the series is over, S8E6 all said and done--who will be the heroes and who will be the villains, both alive and dead?

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I'm team Jon Snow, so I think he'll come through on the throne. 

Davos - hero

Tyrion - dead hero

Arya - dead hero

Daeny - dead villain

Greyworm - dead villain

 

Jon retires because he is getting too old for this shit. He finds his direwolf and best friend and just chills. He never wanted any of this. He just wanted to be accepted by his family and know his mother. 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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It's hard to root for a submissive little ...... (pick a word of your choice).

Book Jon is cool, heck season 6 Jon is ok too even up to the point where he gave no fucks to Dany and refused to bend the knee.

Ever since though, he isn't worthy to be a king.

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10 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

So, for a show that is (in)famous for subverting expectations, people do not seem super happy about the twist Daeny took in S8E5. So, my question is, when the series is over, S8E6 all said and done--who will be the heroes and who will be the villains, both alive and dead?

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I'm team Jon Snow, so I think he'll come through on the throne. 

Davos - hero

Tyrion - dead hero

Arya - dead hero

Daeny - dead villain

Greyworm - dead villain

 

To me, this is what is kinda annoying because there really aren't supposed to be heroes and villains in this story. Shades of grey all around. Supposedly D&D are using GRRM's character endings (though with the way Jamie and Cersei died, I highly doubt that). They are pushing hard for Jon to be a reluctant King. So I guess he is the good guy we are rooting for?

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1 hour ago, btfu806 said:

To me, this is what is kinda annoying because there really aren't supposed to be heroes and villains in this story. Shades of grey all around. Supposedly D&D are using GRRM's character endings (though with the way Jamie and Cersei died, I highly doubt that). They are pushing hard for Jon to be a reluctant King. So I guess he is the good guy we are rooting for?

I am rooting for Jon to not be king and retire. Jon as king is a punishment unless that's the point. 

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No heroes. No villains. No one gets a happy ending.

Except Sansa. She's probably dancing like nobody's watching in Winterfell right now.

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2 hours ago, btfu806 said:

To me, this is what is kinda annoying because there really aren't supposed to be heroes and villains in this story. Shades of grey all around. Supposedly D&D are using GRRM's character endings (though with the way Jamie and Cersei died, I highly doubt that). They are pushing hard for Jon to be a reluctant King. So I guess he is the good guy we are rooting for?

I'm a bit awestruck at the fact that you still believe this to be true.

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Just now, Jabar of House Titan said:

I'm a bit awestruck at the fact that you still believe this to be true.

GRRM hasn't said otherwise (though he doesn't know what their endings are yet, I assume). Once he says it, or we can read it, then we will know. Until then.... we don't know....

But when GRRM (most likely) confirms, either in a post/interview or his books, that D&D picked their own ending. I am giong to be so happy once again ha.

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12 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

So, for a show that is (in)famous for subverting expectations, people do not seem super happy about the twist Daeny took in S8E5. So, my question is, when the series is over, S8E6 all said and done--who will be the heroes and who will be the villains, both alive and dead?

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I'm team Jon Snow, so I think he'll come through on the throne. 

Davos - alive hero

Tyrion - Alive hero

Arya - alive hero

Daeny - dead villain

Greyworm - dead neutral

 

Go team Jon but I think Tyrion and Arya live.

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2 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I'm a bit awestruck at the fact that you still believe this to be true.

I'm believing in it somewhat. Like who lives and dies in the show will do the same in the books.  

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3 hours ago, btfu806 said:

GRRM hasn't said otherwise (though he doesn't know what their endings are yet, I assume). Once he says it, or we can read it, then we will know. Until then.... we don't know....

But when GRRM (most likely) confirms, either in a post/interview or his books, that D&D picked their own ending. I am giong to be so happy once again ha.

I think if he says they aren't the same I will cry tears of joy.

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6 hours ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

It's hard to root for a submissive little ...... (pick a word of your choice).

Book Jon is cool, heck season 6 Jon is ok too even up to the point where he gave no fucks to Dany and refused to bend the knee.

Ever since though, he isn't worthy to be a king.

i should read the books if book jon is better

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Looks like Jon will be TPTWP, except his destiny is to extinguish the threat of Dany, not the NK.  Dany is arguably just as big of a threat right now.

This is how DD will justify their interpretation of that specific prophecy. 

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"You either die a dumbass or live to see yourself become an even bigger dumbass."

 - Jon, stabbing himself with Longclaw to avoid having sex with his aunt again

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Here’s another outlook.....

So look at all of Dany’s Male advisors, all they have ever done bar Drogo, is tell her to be diplomatic, tell her to spare people, to approach was with an open hand oppose to full on warfare. Their interest lie with the preservation of KL, for Dany to go in sack the city and sit on the throne as her Male advisors continue to use her as a puppet, eventually Tyrion, Varys and many other “Lords” will have their hand up her arsehole controlling her every word, as they’ve done throughout history. KL has become poison, it’s full of corruption it’s full of betrayal and it’s full of self obsessed men who all have a slice of the power. 

Then look at Dany’s female advisors, an important scene is with Olena, when she talks to Dany about Tyrion, and then says “You are a dragon, be a dragon”.... and then later Missandei says “dracarys” right before she gets Ned Starked....

Dany has spent most of her time listening to men, those who have a vested interest in the throne, they all want things to seemingly carry on for their own benefit, whereas the advice Dany got from her female friends is possibly a warning? Leave KL intact and history will repeat itself, don’t become their puppet, become who you truly are, break the wheel and bring the city to ruin, destroy KL and reset the times. So regardless of whether Dany dies or not she’s a hero, she has rid KL of the majority of it’s poison and has given it an opportunity to rebuild itself, a fresh start. She was the only one capable of doing such a thing.

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15 minutes ago, Calaryion said:

Here’s another outlook.....

So look at all of Dany’s Male advisors, all they have ever done bar Drogo, is tell her to be diplomatic, tell her to spare people, to approach was with an open hand oppose to full on warfare. Their interest lie with the preservation of KL, for Dany to go in sack the city and sit on the throne as her Male advisors continue to use her as a puppet, eventually Tyrion, Varys and many other “Lords” will have their hand up her arsehole controlling her every word, as they’ve done throughout history. KL has become poison, it’s full of corruption it’s full of betrayal and it’s full of self obsessed men who all have a slice of the power. 

Then look at Dany’s female advisors, an important scene is with Olena, when she talks to Dany about Tyrion, and then says “You are a dragon, be a dragon”.... and then later Missandei says “dracarys” right before she gets Ned Starked....

Dany has spent most of her time listening to men, those who have a vested interest in the throne, they all want things to seemingly carry on for their own benefit, whereas the advice Dany got from her female friends is possibly a warning? Leave KL intact and history will repeat itself, don’t become their puppet, become who you truly are, break the wheel and bring the city to ruin, destroy KL and reset the times. So regardless of whether Dany dies or not she’s a hero, she has rid KL of the majority of it’s poison and has given it an opportunity to rebuild itself, a fresh start. She was the only one capable of doing such a thing.

 

I like Olenna Tyrell; but she is as ethically challenged as Littlefinger - witness her complicity in making Sansa the unwitting accomplice to regicide (I don't blame her for being party to regicide herself but she should have kept Sansa out of it).  

I don't care how much you want to break the wheel and reset the times, murdering thousands of helpless, innocent civilians in a city that had already surrendered is not a good way to accomplish those objectives.  I'm not including the Iron Fleet or the Golden Company - war was their business and pleasure; they had set themselves against Dany and her forces as enemies.  The only poison that we could see in King's Landing consisted of three or four people - Cersei (and arguably Jaime), Qyburn, and the Mountain.  The rest were either war-weary Lannister troops inside the wall (who surrendered to Dany's troops pretty quickly) or civilians justifiably terrified of a foreign invader and her dragons and Dothraki.  

All Dany had to do to break the wheel was dethrone Cersei, kill her or imprison her - I would say that if she had destroyed Maegor's Keep to do that, even if there were civilians inside; that would have been enough and the civilians' death would have been on what passes for a conscience in Cersei; most of the people of King's Landing would have survived, and the city could have been salvaged.  Dany could have placed her capital in Oldtown or another city, or built a new one (if she could find the money).

Jorah never tried to use Dany as a puppet; he loved her; although he had originally deceived her, and wanted her to survive and thrive even if she never chose to love him.  Tyrion and Varys did have agendas; but Varys at least brought Dany the forces of Dorne and what was left of the Tyrells.

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14 hours ago, snow is the man said:

I think if he says they aren't the same I will cry tears of joy.

you and me both haha

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8 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

I like Olenna Tyrell; but she is as ethically challenged as Littlefinger - witness her complicity in making Sansa the unwitting accomplice to regicide (I don't blame her for being party to regicide herself but she should have kept Sansa out of it).  

I don't care how much you want to break the wheel and reset the times, murdering thousands of helpless, innocent civilians in a city that had already surrendered is not a good way to accomplish those objectives.  I'm not including the Iron Fleet or the Golden Company - war was their business and pleasure; they had set themselves against Dany and her forces as enemies.  The only poison that we could see in King's Landing consisted of three or four people - Cersei (and arguably Jaime), Qyburn, and the Mountain.  The rest were either war-weary Lannister troops inside the wall (who surrendered to Dany's troops pretty quickly) or civilians justifiably terrified of a foreign invader and her dragons and Dothraki.  

All Dany had to do to break the wheel was dethrone Cersei, kill her or imprison her - I would say that if she had destroyed Maegor's Keep to do that, even if there were civilians inside; that would have been enough and the civilians' death would have been on what passes for a conscience in Cersei; most of the people of King's Landing would have survived, and the city could have been salvaged.  Dany could have placed her capital in Oldtown or another city, or built a new one (if she could find the money).

Jorah never tried to use Dany as a puppet; he loved her; although he had originally deceived her, and wanted her to survive and thrive even if she never chose to love him.  Tyrion and Varys did have agendas; but Varys at least brought Dany the forces of Dorne and what was left of the Tyrells.

Actually no.

Breaking the wheel has always been more than deposing the current ruler. If it wasn't, why would she make it such a point?

"They can die in their old world or live in my new world."

Breaking the wheel has been about a total death and destruction of the status quo. Of the feudal intrigues, dynastic marriages and civil wars that exploit the weak and corrupt the strong.

Of course, the lords and knights of Westeros love their power and their privilege and will want to fight against it. But the smallfolk ultimately will benefit from such a thing.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2019 at 12:32 AM, PetyrPunkinhead said:

nSo, for a show that is (in)famous for subverting expectations, people do not seem super happy about the twist Daeny took in S8E5. So, my question is, when the series is over, S8E6 all said and done--who will be the heroes and who will be the villains, both alive and dead?

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm team Jon Snow, so I think he'll come through on the throne. 

Davos - hero

Tyrion - dead hero

Arya - dead hero

Daeny - dead villain

Greyworm - dead villain

 

When you play the Game of thrones, you either win, or you die.  When you win, you must rule. With that comes absolute power.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  That is in essence the wheel that Danny and Tyrion talked about.

It can only be broken by someone winning the game, and not just rejecting the power, but giving it to the people in a way that ends the game.

Edited by Larger than Average Finger

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14 hours ago, Calaryion said:

Here’s another outlook.....

So look at all of Dany’s Male advisors, all they have ever done bar Drogo, is tell her to be diplomatic, tell her to spare people, to approach was with an open hand oppose to full on warfare. Their interest lie with the preservation of KL, for Dany to go in sack the city and sit on the throne as her Male advisors continue to use her as a puppet, eventually Tyrion, Varys and many other “Lords” will have their hand up her arsehole controlling her every word, as they’ve done throughout history. KL has become poison, it’s full of corruption it’s full of betrayal and it’s full of self obsessed men who all have a slice of the power. 

Then look at Dany’s female advisors, an important scene is with Olena, when she talks to Dany about Tyrion, and then says “You are a dragon, be a dragon”.... and then later Missandei says “dracarys” right before she gets Ned Starked....

Dany has spent most of her time listening to men, those who have a vested interest in the throne, they all want things to seemingly carry on for their own benefit, whereas the advice Dany got from her female friends is possibly a warning? Leave KL intact and history will repeat itself, don’t become their puppet, become who you truly are, break the wheel and bring the city to ruin, destroy KL and reset the times. So regardless of whether Dany dies or not she’s a hero, she has rid KL of the majority of it’s poison and has given it an opportunity to rebuild itself, a fresh start. She was the only one capable of doing such a thing.

Sortalike Pol Pot, a little genocide for the fresh start of a wonderful new world of agrarian marxism where every body is equal and there are no slaves. Except don't poke the dragon.

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