Mourning Dany

[Wik]

13 hours ago, Rhae_Valarie said:

I know a lot of people expected the Mad Daenerys twist but personally I was never one of them and this last episode has left me devastated, to say the least. I find myself desperately hoping that this is contrived for the purposes of the show and won’t come to pass in the books, but I have my doubts. Endings to something you love are always hard, but the ruination of one of my favorite characters in all of literature blindsided me.

 

what are your thoughts on Dany’s future and how do you feel about this development? 

She should die a horrible death but it won't happen like that. She ought to die a slow, agonizing, terrible death. But instead it will be quick and unexpected and she won't have to suffer like all the people in KL did because she is a psychotic nut job. 

Definitive enough? 

[Isis]

4 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Dude I've never been a huge Dany fan but that last rejection of Jon has had me moping all day. He broke her heart and mine at the same time

 

I'm actually team Dany pretty late in the game and hope she can turn it around.

She's become the tyrant that she keeps saying she has come to destroy. Jon doesn't find that attractive and he can probably see where it's going to end for everyone. It's sad for him too. 

[nara]

1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

The dragon flew right by those ships at a glide. Yet not one bolt even nicked drogon. Normally I would wave it off but I am not gonna excuse them anymore. They ruined dany's character for shock and awe. No other reason just shock. It was out of character...BAH

There’s still a chance that she will be so horrified by what she’s done that she will give up the throne and live the rest of her life differently...

[snow is the man]

Just now, nara said:

There’s still a chance that she will be so horrified by what she’s done that she will give up the throne and live the rest of her life differently...

And how will that make up for what fake dany did. No the only way dany's character isn't ruined would be to have it be a dream or something she had when the bells ring or before she attacks and then does something different. They shattered her character and then ran a steam roller over the pieces.

[Leonardo]

10 hours ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

I don't believe she doubted Tyrions plan or seen it as a betrayal or poor judgement I do believe she just lost the plot..bells chiming set of some sort of PTSD from her childhood.

However I do believe at the earlier meeting when Tyrion tried to talk sense into her had it been Jorah she would have listened... Jorah has countless times shown he is more interested in her welfare than his own, this is something that no matter how good a hand Tyrion has tried to be she has most likely never felt that he would lay down his life for her, I guess knowing Jorah would and actually did would mean any advice he gave would be in her best interests not his own.

She was born on Dragonstone after KL fell tho

[Leonardo]

1 hour ago, Faydra said:

I affirmed that Dany's arc is not about her becoming mad so, so, so loudly in 2013. If every poster which I contradicted would come now and say "told ya", and I'd get a coin for each "told ya", I'd be rich. 

I'll start it off, but I'm not happy about it

[Platypus Rex]

14 hours ago, Rhae_Valarie said:

I know a lot of people expected the Mad Daenerys twist but personally I was never one of them and this last episode has left me devastated, to say the least. I find myself desperately hoping that this is contrived for the purposes of the show and won’t come to pass in the books, but I have my doubts. Endings to something you love are always hard, but the ruination of one of my favorite characters in all of literature blindsided me.

what are your thoughts on Dany’s future and how do you feel about this development? 

Based on the books, I always believed some kind of Mad Dany twist was coming.  But here's some thoughts which might possibly appease the disappointment.

(1) The devil is in the details.  More and better buildup may make Dany's behavior easier to understand.

(2) Look at the HOTU prophesies.  Drogon (I suppose) is the mount she will "ride to dread".  It looks like that's been achieved.  But that (it seems) will not be the end.  What about the third mount?

(3) Did you notice the green explosions?  Those were (I suppose) King Aerys's wildfire caches going off, which he planted for the very purpose of destroying the city.  It is possible that, when this happens in the books, it will be handled so as to make the devastation seem less diabolically deliberate on Dany's part - not necessarily freeing her of blame, but still less diabolically deliberate (but yeah, I know it does not come across that way in the show at all). 

(4) A less-rushed ending, may allow for a plausible post-twist redemption.

 

 

[Sir Hedge of Hog]

2 hours ago, snow is the man said:

EXACTLY! Her going into a rage and flying to the keep to kill cersei even if it meant she would kill innocent people would have been believable and made sense. I didn't want to have her go mad but if they had her attack the red keep after the bell rang it would have gotten the point across and been believable. Instead they have her target innocent people for no reason. It was completly out of character.

 

Same with jon saying he loves her then pulling away and saying nothing. He did that when she was falling apart. He didn't say it was because she was his aunt or how if she burned KL to the ground the next day he couldn't love her. No he saw her losing it and gave her cold silence. That was not jon.

I am glad there is only one episode left because otherwise I would just wiki it after the show ended rather then watch more of it. If they make a sequel and have different writers and show runners I will give it a shot but if it has the same writers and show runners then I am staying away.

 

It just made no freaking sense!

Yes it made no sense at all - wtf did jon not talk about this - they never talk !!!

[snow is the man]

1 minute ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

Yes it made no sense at all - wtf did jon not talk about this - they never talk !!!

He could have just held her or given her something. He wanted silence then hold her and let her grieve. Nope jon is suddenly gonna go cold as ice for no reason.

[snow is the man]

39 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

Based on the books, I always believed some kind of Mad Dany twist was coming.  But here's some thoughts which might possibly appease the disappointment.

(1) The devil is in the details.  More and better buildup may make Dany's behavior easier to understand.

(2) Look at the HOTU prophesies.  Drogon (I suppose) is the mount she will "ride to dread".  It looks like that's been achieved.  But that (it seems) will not be the end.  What about the third mount?

(3) Did you notice the green explosions?  Those were (I suppose) King Aerys's wildfire caches going off, which he planted for the very purpose of destroying the city.  It is possible that, when this happens in the books, it will be handled so as to make the devastation seem less diabolically deliberate on Dany's part - not necessarily freeing her of blame, but still less diabolically deliberate (but yeah, I know it does not come across that way in the show at all). 

(4) A less-rushed ending, may allow for a plausible post-twist redemption.

 

 

I think GRRM will do something  that is somewhere between ruthless and mad. Not like aerys but no saint either. This was just...beyond aerys even.

[Green Knight]

14 hours ago, theladyinspring said:

Now I'm not interested in finishing the books. All I'll have is dread. I'm sure it will be much better written and more tragic and everything but for me it would be a waste of time. I'm just really not interested in the fate of the people of Westeros if it ends like this and the war with the army of the dead has no impact other than to make Dany feel more unloved. Again, not saying GRRM can't tell this story in a well-told way, but I just have no interest in reading this happen to this character, no matter how "earned". 

So you’re concerned that the impact of the war with the WW’s is that it will make her “feel more unloved”? That’s the impact that concerns you?! I’m kind of at a loss here. 

This is why I’ve never liked the character of DS in the least - books or show and why I have zero empathy for the Dany fans. She is an entitlement minded, self absorbed megalomaniac who exists in a vacuum and thinks the whole world revolves around her. Can’t wait to see her get hers...

[Green Knight]

2 hours ago, Wik said:

She should die a horrible death but it won't happen like that. She ought to die a slow, agonizing, terrible death. But instead it will be quick and unexpected and she won't have to suffer like all the people in KL did because she is a psychotic nut job. 

Definitive enough? 

I wish I could give you a thousand likes but I’m all out for the day.

[snow is the man]

4 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

So you’re concerned that the impact of the war with the WW’s is that it will make her “feel more unloved”? That’s the impact that concerns you?! I’m kind of at a loss here. 

This is why I’ve never liked the character of DS in the least - books or show and why I have zero empathy for the Dany fans. She is an entitlement minded, self absorbed megalomaniac who exists in a vacuum and thinks the whole world revolves around her. Can’t wait to see her get hers...

you already did. The real dany died in episode four. This is an imposter wearing dany's face or a look alike. Dany died of a heart attack when she saw her second child killed

[Wik]

9 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

you already did. The real dany died in episode four. This is an imposter wearing dany's face or a look alike. Dany died of a heart attack when she saw her second child killed

darn

[draft0]

A tough, tough day for Dany fans.

I don't think any of us really expected that when we started reading about her in AGOT that she was actually destined to become the final villain. Gentle but strong, abused at every turn yet overcoming every thug and murderer and slaver thrown her way. It was a great arc, and we responded to it. People were naming their children Khaleesi, for god's sakes.

The visceral reaction to yesterday's episode tells all, IMO.

GRRM wrenched out our hearts--on purpose. All the anger, the shock, the disappointment, the grief, it was all intentional, all carefully planned from the very start, twenty years plus in the making. He made us feel it. Like he always does. This is the Red Wedding all over again, maybe even worse, because this time our hero wasn't just betrayed by others, she betrayed herself and she betrayed us, the readers, everyone who was rooting for her, who idolized her and made her into a superhero-feminist-pop-culture-goddess-icon, who would have followed her anywhere and ultimately did, with fire and blood.

She made us all complicit.

One of GRRM's greatest twists. You sly, ruthless, magnificent bastard.

[Minsc]

34 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

I think GRRM will do something  that is somewhere between ruthless and mad. Not like aerys but no saint either. This was just...beyond aerys even.

Honestly, to reference another series I think it would be better if Dany became a Paul Atreides like character similar to how Jon is Aragorn-like. 

[Hodor's Dragon]

12 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

<snip> why I have zero empathy for the Dany fans. She is an entitlement minded, self absorbed megalomaniac who exists in a vacuum and thinks the whole world revolves around her. Can’t wait to see her get hers...

Entitlement minded - uh, I think most heirs to major thrones in Earth history, at least, have been "entitlement minded." Are you kidding me--or just falling back on a familiar rhetorical crutch that doesn't really mean anything? Also, this whole bit about bringing herself up from slavery pretty much by her own wit, being the only person to bring dragons back to life and having that take place under clearly magical circumstances, you're recalling those? So despite the claim to the throne, the life story, the dragons, the followers, all while a teen-ager, she should marry some nice local lord and settle down and have kids?

Self absorbed - No. That's absurd. She's laser-focused on the manifestations of her acts into the world. She lives comfortably but she has dedicated her wealth to "civic" affairs, not her own luxury. 

Megalomaniac - Granted, she seeks power, but what's your evidence for the "maniac" portion of that word? None I'm aware of.

Feel free to not answer if what you have in mind is more ill-tempered mocking. . . .

[snow is the man]

1 minute ago, draft0 said:

A tough, tough day for Dany fans.

I don't think any of us really expected that when we started reading about her in AGOT that she was actually destined to become the final villain. Gentle but strong, abused at every turn yet overcoming every thug and murderer and slaver thrown her way. It was a great arc, and we responded to it. People were naming their children Khaleesi, for god's sakes.

The visceral reaction to yesterday's episode tells all, IMO.

GRRM wrenched out our hearts--on purpose. All the anger, the shock, the disappointment, the grief, it was all intentional, all carefully planned from the very start, twenty years plus in the making. He made us feel it. Like he always does. This is the Red Wedding all over again, maybe even worse, because this time our hero wasn't just betrayed by others, she betrayed herself and she betrayed us, the readers, everyone who was rooting for her, who idolized her and made her into a superhero-feminist-pop-culture-goddess-icon, who would have followed her anywhere and ultimately did, with fire and blood.

She made us all complicit.

One of GRRM's greatest twists. You sly, ruthless, magnificent bastard.

No this was crappy writing that made no sense and it wasn't GRRM.

 

As for naming their kid after her or any TV character I say you should wait until the show is over.

[Areisius]

15 hours ago, Hoo said:

I don't see her as mad.  She got the King's Landing.  That was always the goal.  Yes she wanted to be the breaker of the chains, but the people did not. 

In the end, the goal was accomplished.  The throne is hers.

The suspense in the last episode is with the Starks, how they will react to the new queen, and whether the rest of Westeros will reject Dany because of lineage.  

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[snow is the man]

Just now, Hodor's Dragon said:

Entitlement minded - uh, I think most heirs to major thrones in Earth history, at least, have been "entitlement minded." Are you kidding me--or just falling back on a familiar rhetorical crutch that doesn't really mean anything? Also, this whole bit about bringing herself up from slavery pretty much by her own wit, being the only person to bring dragons back to life and having that take place under clearly magical circumstances, you're recalling those? So despite the claim to the throne, the life story, the dragons, the followers, all while a teen-ager, she should marry some nice local lord and settle down and have kids?

Self absorbed - No. That's absurd. She's laser-focused on the manifestations of her acts into the world. She lives comfortably but she has dedicated her wealth to "civic" affairs, not her own luxury. 

Megalomaniac - Granted, she seeks power, but what's your evidence for the "maniac" portion of that word? None I'm aware of.

Feel free to not answer if what you have in mind is more ill-tempered mocking. . . .

The episode made no sense. Her actions were so out of character it is insane. I am not gonna write it again but I said they should have had her burn down the red keep if they wanted to have her go mad queen. Instead they went with "let's be shocking" Doesn't matter that it is ridiculous let's just make her worse then aerys because...shock!

 

The only people who can make sense of it is if you hated dany and always thought she was insane and evil despite her being a flawed character who tries to help people.  She had never shown signs of this. She could be brutal but this was just ...shatter her character and run it over with a steam roller. Screw the writers of this. Gonna pretend dany died in episode four and this was a look alike. I really don't see GRRM turning her like this in the books.

I think she will do something bad and maybe KL gets burnt down but it will be in a battle not in a massacre like this.