was the Cleganebowl pointless?

[lakin1013]

1 hour ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

Sandor knew he was going to die (re)killing his brother and he didn't care. It was his primary drive and his life's goal. 

Maybe "the point" is to illustrates how empty personal vendettas are in the end. 

My thoughts exactly.  Carefully nurturing a 'hurt' until it becomes your raison d'etre is non-productive and damaging.  Sandor lived for one thing, and he got it, only to realize that his much hated brother had already died and the thing facing him was not even human.   Revenge is ultimately unsatisfying.

[Nerevanin]

Yeah. Maybe Cleganebowl will happen in the books too but the way they did in the show seemed like shameless fan service to me. Ok, so the two rival brother fought but who cares because 1) they both died; 2) Gregor would 99% die either way because the whole city and keep were collapsing.

 

2 hours ago, Jayc said:

I liked that Sandor killed his brother by throwing into a pit of fire

I would like it better if Sandor killled Gregor by throwing him into a pit of fire while Sandor survives.

[Rory Snow]

Cleganebowl was always senseless as it relates to the overall story, because it didn't relate at all. This was a feud between two people, nothing more. It consumed Sandor so i suppose it was important to his arc alone, but that's really about it.... It was still a cool fight tho'

[btfu806]

I don't know if pointless. D&D knew fans wanted to see it, so they did it. And I enjoyed it for what it was but I hyped it too much in my own head, which is my own fault. So it didn't live up to those expectations. It's something that probably won't happen in the books so it's the best I will ever get ha.

[of little moment]

7 hours ago, Aerys Blackfyre said:

don't get me wrong, I loved the scene (probably one of the few things I would save about this episode), the setting was epic, like some legedary fight in a videogame, with a Dark Souls-like atmosphere with the castle crumbling etc...

But in the end, it seemed a little bit pointless, didn't it? I've always thought this long expected scene would take place in a completely different scenario and with a higher purpose than just the Hound's personal seek for revenge... I expected this duel to have consequences on the major plot of the show, that perhaps Sandor would fight his brother to allow somebody else to slay Cersei and end the war... 

The point of it was to be pointless. Sandor was driven mainly by hate and the craving for violent revenge which only creates more of it; therefor him fighting his brother couldn't have been part of the solution for ending the war or any other conflict (otherwise it would have become really pointless from every point of view). He even told Arya (just a bit late). Well i guess it had a point: Arya learning another important message... not to become Sandor.

I never liked the term "cleganebowl" and that it even came up. That this fight of all things has been anticipated as an main event of the show, that's what really has no point for me. Since the beginning it was constantly shown how awful war and the abuse of power is. Or simple: violence is no fun. Yes there were occasions where fights have been staged for mainly entertainment purposes or where the portrayal of violence was ridiculously overdone or unnecessarily put in (maybe more in the last seasons than in the first ones), but over all it was not shown as something "appealing". So in my opinion it should have never been about making people cheer for a violent payoff. If we were talking about one of the dozen action movies where people constantly fight because of revenge which ends with a "cool showdown" i wouldn't make this point, because that's whats to be expect of those movies. But in my perception that's not what the books or even the show is(/should be) about.

Before this episode i imagined (jokingly) this fight to happen on the burning ruins of the red keep and it really did( - but in the end i missed Gregor rising from the flames while the terminator theme plays). Gregor stepping up to Sandor because his hate is stronger than whatever Qyburn did too him... that was just too much, like the whole setup. I know it's fantasy and i have no idea how much personality is supposed to be left of Gregor but he was dead or near death when Qyburn turned him into this, and he did obey every order until this point. Why didn't they fight at their meeting last season if he is uncontrollable in presence of his brother? Because it needed to happen there.

Yes, visually it was a fitting scenery as an resemblance of the pointless destruction happening around them... but it got too much time on screen and praise/attention in advance.

Besides: I guess it was on purpose that this fight remembered me of Star Wars/Darth Vader? Also the helmets which some of the Lannister troops were wearing.

No offense! Just my thoughts on this.

[darmody]

It wasn't very pointful. It did result in Qyburn's death and left Cersei alone to be with Jaime. But really, it was something everyone wanted to see since season One and there was no way not to do it.

I mean, even without the brother against brother thing, someone had to kill Cersei's pet monster. He's been standing there menacing everyone for three seasons. 

[Astromech]

It was fan service and I thoroughly enjoyed it.  But I also appreciated Sandor snapping some sense into Arya. I much prefer her having something to live for than something to die for. I just wish it was Stranger Arya rode out of King's Landing on.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

3 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I would like it better if Sandor killled Gregor by throwing him into a pit of fire while Sandor survives.

Me too

[Joey Crows]

Clegane Bowl has been coming for a while now. But to me this felt hollow. It wasn't really a great fight scene. More chaotic than anything. Which was disappointing for a battle between two of the most feared fighters in Westeros. But the reason it didn't do anything for me ultimately is because it didn't have any stakes attached to its outcome. By that point we knew both men would probably die in the destruction of KL, and they weren't defending or attempting to kill anyone else, so who cares? I mean, good job getting revenge on your brother Sandor I guess, but he was an undead zombie and you died too, so yeah.

[Bradam]

56 minutes ago, darmody said:

It wasn't very pointful. It did result in Qyburn's death and left Cersei alone to be with Jaime. But really, it was something everyone wanted to see since season One and there was no way not to do it.

I mean, even without the brother against brother thing, someone had to kill Cersei's pet monster. He's been standing there menacing everyone for three seasons. 

Nope, majority maybe.. but not everyone.  i was hoping for something different, anything really.

The broken burnt castle cgi'd background kept making me thing of some old random video game.

Sandor should have died about 10 times during that fight.  Almost seemed like Gregor was just toying with him, which is rather out of character for a guy we've seem murder everyone else in a few seconds.  

And one stab in the gut through plate armour that was so heavy no normal man could wear?  And then someone that one sword stab make his breastplate, backplate thing just.. fall off?  So we could see some zombie pecks?

[Ashes Of Westeros]

It was pointless. A bone to fans who wanted a Cleganebowl. There was no point of The Hound to go North and fight the WW if he's only purpose was to kill his brother. 

[Cas Stark]

I didn't like it.

The fight itself did have some cool moves but it went on way too long.  As far as thematically, it isn't really true that the Hound has never veered from his desire to kill his brother [whose already mostly dead by now so not nearly as rewarding], we saw him protect Arya, go North, fight for the good guys, putting him back where he started was like anti character development.  There is no reason why he's still obsessed with killing his already dead brother except the show wanted Cleganebowl. 

[of little moment]

On 5/13/2019 at 6:36 PM, darmody said:

But really, it was something everyone wanted to see since season One and there was no way not to do it.

Not everyone. I had no desire for it at all but that's just me. Of course there were ways not to do it or earlier in a more "basic" way. But the showrunners explained in the making of they wanted it to happen and they used the word "epic" to describe it. So it is what it is.

On 5/13/2019 at 7:42 PM, Cas Stark said:

 As far as thematically, it isn't really true that the Hound has never veered from his desire to kill his brother [whose already mostly dead by now so not nearly as rewarding], we saw him protect Arya, go North, fight for the good guys, putting him back where he started was like anti character development.  There is no reason why he's still obsessed with killing his already dead brother except the show wanted Cleganebowl. 

About it being less rewarding because of Gregor's death i would say it just shouldn't be rewarding. Neither for the viewer nor for Sandor personally. And to be fair: Gregor wasn't that much different when he was alive but that doesn't make it better how they chose to build this up. You are right that after all that Sandor has been through he clearly wasn't exactly the same person as in the beginning (i didn't give that enough thought in my first post, thanks for bringing it up!). But i think obsession needs no logical reason, so you could come up with explanations why his experiences weren't enough to change his desire for revenge and even lasted longer than his brother's (kind of-)death - but making it understandable why he acts that way would of course have been the responsibility of the writers/showrunners. Maybe him going north was already anti character development. So basically i agree that his path was not comprehensible enough - neither in the one way nor the other. They made Sandor help out in the north (two times) so he can do a little good and get sympathies, then going for revenge without second thoughts - makes him "twice as cool" (sarcasm). Their main concern was to make it appealing/epic which is in my opinion the wrong motivation and makes it truly pointless (like somebody said before). I regret that i tried to put some meaning into it in my first post.