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Aerys Blackfyre

was the Cleganebowl pointless?

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Posted (edited)

don't get me wrong, I loved the scene (probably one of the few things I would save about this episode), the setting was epic, like some legedary fight in a videogame, with a Dark Souls-like atmosphere with the castle crumbling etc...

But in the end, it seemed a little bit pointless, didn't it? I've always thought this long expected scene would take place in a completely different scenario and with a higher purpose than just the Hound's personal seek for revenge... I expected this duel to have consequences on the major plot of the show, that perhaps Sandor would fight his brother to allow somebody else to slay Cersei and end the war... 

Edited by Aerys Blackfyre

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3 hours ago, Aerys Blackfyre said:

with a higher purpose than just the Hound's personal seek for revenge

Well, The Hound messed up his entire life by being fixated on personal revenge. That's it. Some issues are simple. The Hound was driven by his childhood trauma and life-long seeking revenge,

His arc is valuable because he has this gentle moment with Arya trying her to see that she is on the same path of wating her life for the same reasons as him. 

This arc alone justifies the means. The Hound full of bitterness and lonesomeness hopefully gets Arya away from the same bitter fate.

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You're not wrong. Definitely epic in terms of what we got. I really enjoyed Sandor's last scream of fury. But the Mountain was just as dead as Cersei by that point, unless somehow he could have taken the whole castle falling down on him. Sandor just wanted the satisfaction of taking out his brother personally, which is fine, I guess.

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We've already seen the Hound confront the Mountain to protect a defenseless person (season 1 Loras at the joust). By not having another innocent to defend, it highlights the depth of the need for personal revenge and trauma from his brother. 

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Posted (edited)

Sandor knew he was going to die (re)killing his brother and he didn't care. It was his primary drive and his life's goal. 

Maybe "the point" is to illustrates how empty personal vendettas are in the end. 

Edited by Ferrum Aeternum

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It was clearly forced because D&D wanted it. The timing made no sense, it's not like Gregor had done anything to him lately lol.

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Posted (edited)

Haha, it was tiring, too long for me. As Sandor said: cant you die already? I liked though the shot where both fall from the cliff. 

Edited by Nightwish

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I think the senselessness was kind of the point.  Sandor had nothing else in his life, except his need for vengeance.  Yes, the Mountain would have been destroyed anyway.  But as others have said, Sandor wanted/needed to be the one to do it.  Just as he knew Cersei was going to die regardless, he knew the Mountain was going to be destroyed regardless and pushed on anyway.  He realized himself what a wasted life his rage and hate had molded.  He turned Arya away from the same fate.  Though I don't find it entirely believable that what he said was enough to end her following the same path, that is what the show is trying to say.  So in that sense, it wasn't pointless because Arya had to see her future in Sandor (and the senselessness of it) in order to turn away from doing the same thing.   

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I liked it. Although I see no reason to believe Gregor is dead just because he fell down into something that may have been CGI fire. Who is to say that being burned kills a creature like him.

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it fitted the hound, and yea the mountain was dead but not dead enough because he lost his commands right away when he saw what was comin for him

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I liked that Sandor killed his brother by throwing into a pit of fire

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Yes. There was no need for Sandor to go on that suicide mission.

 

IF Sandor had been trying to assassinate Cersei and IF Mountain was dedicated to protecting her - Than CLEGANEBOWL. 

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I don't see it as pointless. It's been the driving force for the Hound since day one. He wanted his revenge, and he was going to have it, even if it meant his own demise. He fully expected to die in the effort. The Hound's self-loathing was only exceeded by his hate for his brother. Sandor's story arc in the series left no room for any other resolution. Is it pointless? Maybe. But, it felt like the proper resolution, because this is where the D's have been leading us since the beginning. It was revenge porn.

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7 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

I think the senselessness was kind of the point.  Sandor had nothing else in his life, except his need for vengeance.

Yes.

7 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

He realized himself what a wasted life his rage and hate had molded.  He turned Arya away from the same fate. 

Yes. That was the important point about all this.

7 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

So in that sense, it wasn't pointless because Arya had to see her future in Sandor (and the senselessness of it) in order to turn away from doing the same thing

Yes.

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1 hour ago, Nightwish said:

Haha, it was tiring, too long for me. As Sandor said: cant you die already? I liked though the shot where both fall from the cliff. 

Sandor would be good at cinema sins..

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1 hour ago, Red Dragon10 said:

I think the senselessness was kind of the point.  Sandor had nothing else in his life, except his need for vengeance.  Yes, the Mountain would have been destroyed anyway.  But as others have said, Sandor wanted/needed to be the one to do it.  Just as he knew Cersei was going to die regardless, he knew the Mountain was going to be destroyed regardless and pushed on anyway.  He realized himself what a wasted life his rage and hate had molded.  He turned Arya away from the same fate.  Though I don't find it entirely believable that what he said was enough to end her following the same path, that is what the show is trying to say.  So in that sense, it wasn't pointless because Arya had to see her future in Sandor (and the senselessness of it) in order to turn away from doing the same thing.   

This exactly.  I thought it was great how pointless it was, and perfectly in-line with Sandor convincing Arya to leave.  

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Not pointless at all.

It was one of the few messages that have been clear this year.  It reiterated what Sandor told Arya.  Basically revenge is pointless.

Everything Sandor said about Arya killing Cersei could be said about him killing his brother but he went on anyway, and died for no reason what so ever.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I liked it. Although I see no reason to believe Gregor is dead just because he fell down into something that may have been CGI fire. Who is to say that being burned kills a creature like him.

If the fire alone didnt falling 30 stories into heated concrete rubble would. There wouldnt be much left.

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