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Nerevanin

the death of Jaime and Cersei & prophecies

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How did you feel about it? I personally was disappointed by it because imo it felt very anticlimatic.

Also, what's up with the very discussed prophecies of valonquar and younger beautiful queen? So the queen is Dany just because she burned the city? And the valonquar are both Jaime and Tyrion because Tyrion freed Jaime and Jaime led Cersei to the basement where she was killed by collapsing walls? Feels cheap to me.

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1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

I personally was disappointed by it

I wasn't so much.

1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

because imo it felt very anticlimatic

Yes, it did to me, too, but I somehow enjoyed it. All the endless suffering around them and Cersei noting she doesn't want to die that way just amde it great. What a simply death meaning nothing to a queen with such ambitions. Quite fitting after all. 

1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

what's up with the very discussed prophecies of valonquar and younger beautiful queen?

She probably get pressed down by Jaime and dies by suffocating. Prophecies are a complex thing. Works for me somehow. Not perfect, but OK. Since the Valonqar prophecy was NOT part of the show, they did not have to deliver on it.

The younger queen is more difficult. Could have been Maergery all along as discussed intensively back then. Cersei lost all her children through her, Maergery was very beautiful, she took away all Cersei held dear. This is one of the points where I believe the book will render a better solution. I can live with it, though. Cersei dies, all facts fulfilled, no problem for me. 

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1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

How did you feel about it? I personally was disappointed by it because imo it felt very anticlimatic.

Also, what's up with the very discussed prophecies of valonquar and younger beautiful queen? So the queen is Dany just because she burned the city? And the valonquar are both Jaime and Tyrion because Tyrion freed Jaime and Jaime led Cersei to the basement where she was killed by collapsing walls? Feels cheap to me.

I'm confused with the message the show has given us on prophecies.  Just a quick follow-up on them:

The Prince that was Promised: unfulfilled in my opinion

House of the undying: partially correct

Melisandre's Arya prophecy: nailed it naturally since it was created for the show and was vague enough that it could happen

Valonquar: partial... missing the most important piece

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2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

 

The younger queen is more difficult. Could have been Maergery all along as discussed intensively back then. Cersei lost all her children through her, Maergery was very beautiful, she took away all Cersei held dear. This is one of the points where I believe the book will render a better solution. I can live with it, though. Cersei dies, all facts fulfilled, no problem for me. 

I could see the argument for this.  Margery was the main domino that wrecked her world

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The show's prophecies seem to be not terribly accurate, which, I suppose, is accurate. The kids are still dead, if that makes you feel better.

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I liked Cersei's ending. I didn't need a bunch of torture. As much as I hate Cersei, I also felt her character was in many ways a sympathetic one. Not that I have sympathy for her, but I understood some of her motivations. I found her ending to be rather poetic.

And wouldn't the valonquar be Daenerys? She's a younger sibling.

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Thought it was complete horseshit.   If they wanted to pull the 180 with Jaime, it should have been setup better and played out.  That is the problem when they accelerated the pace of the show 500%, you can't develop characters anymore, I mean look at Dany, shit happened in like 3 episodes, if that.  Cersei was acting completely out of character, that bitch is maniacal, I guess you could say that she would go out all scared and afraid like that but to me it seems out of character.  Everything Jaime has done or gone through was literally for nothing, if that is truly what they wanted his story to be about, the back half should have been fleshed out, not a completely boom here we go back to cersei.  Granted the show has not been faithful to the books character that much and is a different beast.  Either way, compelete ass, as is this season.

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3 minutes ago, Wildling Queen said:

I liked Cersei's ending. I didn't need a bunch of torture. As much as I hate Cersei, I also felt her character was in many ways a sympathetic one. Not that I have sympathy for her, but I understood some of her motivations. I found her ending to be rather poetic.

And wouldn't the valonquar be Daenerys? She's a younger sibling.

No. Valonqar means ''little brother''

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14 minutes ago, Obsidian Knight said:

I'm sure that Jamie died but I'm not sure that Cersei died. 

What hell would make you think Jaime died but not Cersei!

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5 minutes ago, Howland Reed said:

Thought it was complete horseshit.   If they wanted to pull the 180 with Jaime, it should have been setup better and played out.  That is the problem when they accelerated the pace of the show 500%, you can't develop characters anymore, I mean look at Dany, shit happened in like 3 episodes, if that.  Cersei was acting completely out of character, that bitch is maniacal, I guess you could say that she would go out all scared and afraid like that but to me it seems out of character.  Everything Jaime has done or gone through was literally for nothing, if that is truly what they wanted his story to be about, the back half should have been fleshed out, not a completely boom here we go back to cersei.  Granted the show has not been faithful to the books character that much and is a different beast.  Either way, compelete ass, as is this season.

Dany was all Fire and Blood since season 2.  It didn't take her long to threaten Qarth.... The Mereen plotline was dedicated to her fleshing out conqueror and queen, with the end result showing her best move was always to burn everything to the ground.

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5 minutes ago, Winter prince said:

The Mereen plotline was dedicated to her fleshing out conqueror and queen, with the end result showing her best move was always to burn everything to the ground.

Indeed.

Some people didn't want to see the facts and were not able to understand the clues. But it was all there, all the time.

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16 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

No. Valonqar means ''little brother''

Are you sure? Just like the Valyrian word that meant "prince or princess that was promised" was gender-neutral, isn't it possible that "valonquar" is too?

And Jaime led her there, so it's possible that was fulfilling the prophecy, as well.

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I hated it. Completely destroyed Jaime as a character. And nice to see Good Queen Carol comes back for her last episode.

They tried to be different characters for the past several episodes, but in the end, they died as Larry and Carol.

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1 minute ago, SuperMario said:

Completely destroyed Jaime as a character.

No, to the contrary.

All his life he was in love with Cersei. Absolute love.

He had an attempt on redemption, but he could not let Cersei go. So many people can not let go of deep love, even if it hurts them. What a great motive, what great real-world implications o how bad such issue can be.

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26 minutes ago, Winter prince said:

I'm confused with the message the show has given us on prophecies.  Just a quick follow-up on them:

The Prince that was Promised: unfulfilled in my opinion

House of the undying: partially correct

Melisandre's Arya prophecy: nailed it naturally since it was created for the show and was vague enough that it could happen

Valonquar: partial... missing the most important piece

The prophecies are a means of revealing the backstory which the show has avoided. They have make 80 hours of television as it is. So giving a full account of Robert's rebellion would have meant another season at least and the leads weren't going to do that.

The significance of the Prince who was Promised is clearly the big reveal in the book and it makes perfect sense for the show to tell us only what while the books also give the why. It is clear that the prophecy was the cause of the rift in the Targ camp that led to Robert's rebellion in the first place.

17 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

No. Valonqar means ''little brother''

The books state emphatically that Valerian is gender neutral and Valonqar could be male or female.

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1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

...

She probably get pressed down by Jaime and dies by suffocating. Prophecies are a complex thing. Works for me somehow. Not perfect, but OK. Since the Valonqar prophecy was NOT part of the show, they did not have to deliver on it.

....

Jaime which will be already dead by bleeding by the time she dies, which will explain his cold hands.
I hope that book Jaime will have a much more active part in that in the books, but for these fail-at-everything show Jaime this is almost the best we could ask.

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3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Cersei lost all her children through her, Maergery was very beautiful, she took away all Cersei held dear. 

Myrcella didn't die because of Margaery. And Margaery didn't make Cersei lose Jaime or her crown.

 

3 hours ago, Howland Reed said:

Cersei was acting completely out of character, that bitch is maniacal, I guess you could say that she would go out all scared and afraid like that but to me it seems out of character.

I wouldn't say "completely out of character" but rather "slighly out of her character". She was facing death, so I suppose that she could be scared, but there are two problems with it: 1) they already used his behavior (scared and begging for life) with Littlefinger; 2) we've already seen Cersei face almost certain death and that was in S2 - instead of running around crying and confusing, she was determined to commit suicide in cold blood.

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