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Nerevanin

Dany and Cersei: double standards?

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I suppose that this is a controversial opinion but I want to say right away that this thread is NOT supposed to defend Cersei and/or attack Dany. It's meant to be just a discussion. Now why I made this thread:

I find it interesting how (mainly in the show) Cersei is seen as an evil character while Dany is a fan favorite. I find it interesting because I think that these two ladies did some bad things that are pretty much comparable:

- Cersei sleeps with her brother while Dany expected to marry her brother (although it didn't happen) and she has no problem in sleeping with her nephew

- Cersei burnt her enemies, who wanted to execute her/lock her for live, in the Sept. Dany burned the khals, who wanted to more or less hold her as a prisoner in dosh khaleen or kill her

- Cersei wanted to execute Tyrion who she believed killed her child Joffrey and she killed Ellaria who killed Myrcella. Dany burned alive the witch who in her opinion caused the death of her son.

- Cersei participated in killing Robert. Dany killed Drogo.

- Cersei arrested Ned who wanted to strip her of her power, but she wanted to send him to the Wall instead of killing him. Dany burned the Tarlys because they didn't bend the knee to her.

- Cersei did what she did for her children or at least she justifies it like this. Dany did it because she believes it is her right to sit on the Iron throne.

- and now Dany burned thousands of innocents alive. I don't think there is anything comparable to this that Cersei did.

So why is (or maybe "was" prior to Ep5) Dany seen by a lot of people as a good character while Cersei is considered evil? Is it because Cersei didn't really do anything good to anyone but herself, while Dany freed the slaves? Or is it because Cersei was in opposition to the "good guys Starks" and "good boyTyrion" from the beginning while Dany was for the most of the time against new / unknown characters?

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

 

- Cersei participated in killing Robert. Dany killed Drogo.

 

 

Not an accurate comparison though,

Cersei plotted against King Robert, Dany did no such a thing, although Robert openly said he doesn't love Cersei and wasted his time with his whores. Still she tried to kill the King, and she succeeded.

Dany never tried that, she killed Drogo because he was already dead inside.

29 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

 

- and now Dany burned thousands of innocents alive. I don't think there is anything comparable to this that Cersei did.

 

 

Well, blowing up the Great Sept of Baelor while thousands of people inside is easily comparable to that.

30 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

 

So why is (or maybe "was" prior to Ep5) Dany seen by a lot of people as a good character while Cersei is considered evil? Is it because Cersei didn't really do anything good to anyone but herself, while Dany freed the slaves? Or is it because Cersei was in opposition to the "good guys Starks" and "good boyTyrion" from the beginning while Dany was for the most of the time against new / unknown characters?

 

 

Dany was good until the recent episode, she went to save the North, freed slaves before, she was just too angry after losing her dragons and people important to her  and she lost her control.

Cersei was always plotting against people, never cared about the people, making secretly incest babies with her brother (the difference with the Targeryans is they did that openly, not behind their king) etc. She always deserved what she got, Dany just made a mistake, we will see how she will continue, mad or not.

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38 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

I find it interesting how (mainly in the show) Cersei is seen as an evil character while Dany is a fan favorite.

Yes, the young, extremely beautiful mother of dragons, forced to marry Drogon, full of courage and growing into a strong woman versa an older queen consort with an incestuous relation and betraying her husband with children that are not his. Yes, Daenerys has a much broader fanbase and I can see why. 

The pivotal point is motivation for the fanbase. Daenerys wanted the good, even when doing the bad. Cersei just is bad.

But yes, the many parallels are probably intended and I always liked Game of Thrones for not being black-and-white. Certainly, this is complex and both women have good and bad features.

Some of your points are invalid, though. Killing Drogo was mercy, he lost what made him person before.

I believe many people have sympathies for Cersei blowing up the Sept anyway. However, many innocent died. Burning the Dosh Khaleesi burned only those Khals that wanted to keep her captive, abuse and rape her. Of course people sympathize with that more. 

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I think the biggest difference is we as viewers or readers are shown multiple redeeming qualities for Dany.  Where the only one for Cersei that they beat the dead horse with is that she loves her children.  After Tommen commits suicide Cersei has no redeeming qualities. 

Dany is also a character that is pushed to the edge throughout the show.  Just a few weeks ago she wanted to save innocent people during the long night.  Cersei has never cared for anyone but her children and Jaime.

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I liked it in E5 when they showed us close-ups of Cersei and Daenerys/Drogon alternatingly before Daenerys snapped.  Of course the comparison of these two makes sense. But they are different nonetheless.

24 minutes ago, Winter prince said:

shown multiple redeeming qualities for Dany.

True. Daenerys has a good heart and want the best, she simply does not do it all the time.

24 minutes ago, Winter prince said:

they beat the dead horse with is that she loves her children.

That's true. Not much more good things about Cersei.

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Cersei never, ever took undiscriminated represails over the wide population, not even after being attacked by a mob at the docks.
Daeneys crucifixed 163 random noblemen from Meereen, not the ones to enact the mile-post child slave killings.

Probably the bias is due to allegiance issues: if you identify with someone, you tend to percieve that she has reasons to do what she does.
If Daenerys had tried to kill a man, or a boy, that could have caused the death of three children by telling a secret to a tyrant, well, we would have people arguing that she took the only moral choice.
I'm not even sayint that they would be wrong, mind it.

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Dany didn’t go to “save the north” as people keep saying. She merely realized there was a larger threat looming that needed to be dealt with. A threat that would be even more dangerous or perhaps unstoppable if it wasn’t dealt with at the time. Everyone keeps acting as if she were Mother Teresa because she went north. It was in her own best interest as well as everyone else’s.

The fact was lost on Cersei who didn’t realize the threat was as great and thought she could use it to her advantage. I’m not saying Cersei is a good character, I hate the bitch but I’m just pointing it out because I know the butt hurt Dany fans will accuse me of being a Cersei lover if I don’t. 

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Reason I always liked and rooted for Dany is that all the odds were against her.

  • Her father was a lunatic, so her nature are not in her favour.
  • She was raised by another lunatic, so her nurture are not in her favour  
  • Never had a place she could truly call her home
  • Only constant thing throughout her life was the idea  that she should sit the iron throne

Despite all of that, she always tried to do what she thought would be the right thing and no matter how many foreshadowing about her going mad has been in previous episodes/seasons, her killing thousands of innocent people I still find completely out of character.

 

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I think the difference is that until now we didn't care about Dany's victims (the slavers, the khalls, ...) while we did care about Cersei's (Tyrells, Starks). We sympathized with Dany but not (really) with Cersei. Dany was shown as hero to save the slaves but the methods weren't always moral.

Personally I had a huge problem how the last seasons the writers kept glorifying Dany's actions like forcing Hizzy to marry him, her execution of the khalls, the crucification of masters of Meereen, ... 

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What I don't like about Cersei is her petty cruelty, not the fact that she offed people who raped or humiliated her. If only she was above that, she'd make a truly great queen.

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