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Ironically, After Falling In Love With GoT For Being Anti-Trope, Many Fans Now Seem To Want...The Tropes???

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6 hours ago, Cron said:

Many fans seem stunned by the fact that so many unexpected (and anti-trope) things have been happening in Season 8, but IS this really surprising?

A huge part of what made GRRM's work so incredibly popular in the first place was the trope busting, yet now, it seems, many people WANT...the trope endings that we (including me) hoped for, dreamed of, and theorized about for years (and for some of us, like me, that's MANY years since we first read the books).

And so now, the show goes on a major trope-busting spree in Season 8, and people are ...shocked and appalled???

Consider Jaime's death. Now, I think LOTS of fans reacted very poorly to that, basically saying it was mundane and anti-climactic (which it was), but IS it surprising that a major character on GoT got crossed off in a mundane and anti-climactic way?  No, not at all.  Remember how Khal Drogo went out?  D&D had nothing to do with that, far as I know.

Many other tropes have been desperately wished for (including by me, I admit) over the years as well, and many (not all, though) are being brutally crushed by Season 8.   I could make a long list, and maybe you could too.  (Here's another doozy:  Many people, I think, were apoplectic that neither Jon nor Dany crossed off the Night King, despite the fact that it would have been a major literary trope for Jon or Dany to do it.  And I could go on and on with other examples.  Here's another: Jaime's redemption arc?  Trope.  So it turned out in the end that he was actually helplessly addicted to Cersei, even if it resulted in his own senseless destruction, which it did.)

So, how much of a role does all of this play in the EXTREMELY negative reviews and comments out there regarding Season 8?  I think it's a LOT, and if we one day find out that a large percentage of Season 8 actually WILL be canon in the books, then I think that will be pretty amusing.

P.S.  My grade for 805 is a "10."  Will I enjoy the ending in the books even more?  I fully expect to, since books are almost always better than the adaptation, right?

Fans liked for being anti-trope - it is not the same as being illogical or badly written. The problem is not that Danny went mad/evil or Cersei died in the basement -  but the way  these things happened, mostly due to very poor, corny and primitive writing that is so unlike what we used to expect from the show. 

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Just now, Razha said:

Fans liked for being anti-trope - it is not the same as being illogical or badly written. The problem is not that Danny went mad/evil or Cersei died in the basement -  but the way  these things happened, mostly due to very poor, corny and primitive writing that is so unlike what we used to expect from the show. 

i agree the  first five seasons were better. my favorites were 1-3. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Winter prince said:

The people upset about Jaime or Dany remind me of when I first read the Red Wedding.  What a sweet summer child I was back then missing all the hints and clues that it was coming.  I wanted to throw the book, I wanted to stop reading, I would have negatively reviewed that in a heartbeat.

People want what they want.  Introduce someone to GoT today and they will talk about how Ned Stark will take the throne or how unstoppable Drogo is.

These people thought they were going to get their happy ending, but they haven't been paying attention.

 

All the tropes are in place. The Starks have saved Winterfell and will live out their days. 

The only character being hurled on the pyre is Daenerys. 

We are getting the happy ending. It’s just that the show and books feel the need to humiliate and ruin my favourite character before all the Stark fan service. 

Edited by Tyrion1991

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Honestly I think most of the complaints would disappear if these last two seasons had both been 10 episodes long.  They could have told the same exact story, but taken a bit more time fleshing out the characters' motivations and I think more people would have been pleased.

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3 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

 

All the tropes are in place. The Starks have saved Winterfell and will live out their days. 

The only character being hurled on the pyre is Daenerys. 

We are getting the happy ending. It’s just that the show and books feel the need to humiliate and ruin my favourite character before all the Stark fan service. 

Right? They should kill Arya or Sansa or Jon. Not gonna happen because it's always been a Stark show. 

 

Ever since day 1 Dany has been painted as the villain - she's the opposing force to Jon Snow. Jon Snow is Ned Stark 2.0. We hailed this series because knights aren't supposed to be in shining plot armor, but Jon Snow has a fortress of it. 

 

So we didn't get a Cersei torture scene, but we knew her and Jaime were probably going to die together. That trope is still there. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

The tragedies are just as cliche as the fairy tales. It's all been done, so to each their own. I've decided to just try to enjoy the ride. And pray he finishes the book series.I

Besides, I've metaphorically cried tons of tears for the tragic tropes, book and show. Nothing wrong with wanting some happy trope tears to offset all the bitter.

Edited by TNTW
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2 hours ago, Cron said:

But...is that true if Jon is not The Prince That Was Promised, and not the person who wins the Iron Throne?

Name one thing that the Prince who was Promised did.

Yeah, made swords and ran Nissa Nissa through with his blade.

Gendry was the PtwP the whole time

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

We don't want tropes.

We want a good story with strong, consistent character arcs and without plot holes you can fly a plane through.

*without plot holes you can fly a dragon through* XD

^^^^THIS

How fucking hard is it? Like my god....

D&D: That's tooooo hard we don't have Daddy George holding our hands, who IS the Prince of Dorne? A Dayne? A Santagar? A Dalt? A Uller? Who are these people? Who was the other guy with Arthur at the ToJ we didn't seen that when we skimmed the ToJ page on wikipedia? Who holds Storms End? Eldon Estermont who? We just looked up R+L=J on this site so we could con GRRM into giving us the rights to his story.....anybody wanna rewatch X-Men Origins Wolverine with us? Benioff did WONDERFUL writing the screenplay for that movie right? We can't spend too much time writing these scripts even though we had 2 years as opposed to 1 we got Star Wars to worry about!

Edited by Adam_Up_Bxtch

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9 hours ago, Cron said:

Consider Jaime's death. Now, I think LOTS of fans reacted very poorly to that, basically saying it was mundane and anti-climactic (which it was), but IS it surprising that a major character on GoT got crossed off in a mundane and anti-climactic way? 

I was hoping for a full redemption arc for Jaime and I did not like how they made him hurt Brienne, but I was not dissatisfied with his death. He tried to save Cersei and their baby. He failed. His father saw him as a failure. Cersei said he was the supidest Lannister. He tried to be a better person, but he failed. So his life ended with a final failure. Long ago in the series he said he wanted to die in the arms of the woman he loved. He did. But not before he killed Euron. I am quite satisfied with it.

 

Did I want Cersei to die a horrible drawn out death? Yes. But after considering, and watching it a second time, I like her ending. She has watched everything she thought was hers torn away from her in a matter of hours. She truly begins to fear for her life. When have we seen that? Ever? In the dungeon she begins to panic, and become despondent, saying she wants their baby to live, and she doesn't want to die. "Not like this. Not like this." The mighty Queen Cersei was reduced to rubble.

 

 

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You just said "trope" like seven times in one post. Maybe you're a bit too focused on that. Game of Thrones does not exist to flout tropes, clichés, conventions, whatevers. As others have said, Jon Snow being the Secret King is the tropiest trope ever. As is a supervillain with a fatal weakness being defeated with one shot. 

The point was to subvert the major conventions of High Fantasy, as inaugurated by Tolkein by throwing Good versus Evil away and focusing on mundane or down-and-dirty reality. Or pretend-reality. Like tax policy and incestuous rape. 

Now, there have been a great many deliberate subversions of expectation, most notably Ned's beheading and the Red Wedding. But that's not what the show is about. Otherwise, it would be the Twilight Zone with one twist per episode.

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Posted (edited)

Tropes are not, the whole Jaime thing was just annoying. It was not shocking. It invoked nothing emotionally. Just.... annoying.

And tell me if you're convinced the 2 brothers COULD REALLY CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT CERSEI. My gawd that conversation they had before Tyrion released Jaime. It's like D&D were deliberately torturing us, because it was US who made them stuck to this series for so long.

Edited by DirePenguin

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, madhikun said:

Right? They should kill Arya or Sansa or Jon. Not gonna happen because it's always been a Stark show. 

 

Ever since day 1 Dany has been painted as the villain - she's the opposing force to Jon Snow. Jon Snow is Ned Stark 2.0. We hailed this series because knights aren't supposed to be in shining plot armor, but Jon Snow has a fortress of it. 

 

So we didn't get a Cersei torture scene, but we knew her and Jaime were probably going to die together. That trope is still there. 

 

 

To be fair, they have killed a lot of Starks. Four, at least. Plus Honorary Stark Theon Reekjoy. And one got crippled and can't make Stark babies. Then there are the wolves. 

Neither Jon, Sansa, nor Arya can produce a legitimate heir named Stark. Though I'm sure there's some legal trick that can keep the line going. 

Edited by darmody

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Crona said:

The truth is every character has flaws and none are pure but the problem is they white wash every other character and make one character very dark.

Who the hell is white washed in this show? Are you sure you're watching the same show?

4 hours ago, Green Knight said:

I still don’t get how people haven’t figured out that this is not a story about happy endings. It’s not a story that takes you where it’s leading either - so much so that sometimes it does just to keep you on your toes. You might know what’s coming next or you might not, but the only thing you know for sure is that you really don’t know for sure. That’s why the story is so damn good. 

Agree. It's like people want the story line spelled out for them, no surprises. I admit this season has been rushed, and I think that's a poor way to end such a good show. However, I do recall being warned that the last season was going to have to be shorter because the cost of CGI was going to be much higher than in previous episodes. (Originally they said it would be like eight episodes but still 10 hours of screen time, but we didn't get that.) You want dragons? Well, you gotta pay for them. Even HBO has budgets. Maybe the producers and HBO execs deserve as much blame as D&D.

8 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

Darling, the books never were this ridiculous

TV audiences have different expectations than book readers. Even as a reader, I have different expectations for TV/movies. I know people who love this show but can't even remember everyone's names.

8 hours ago, Joey Crows said:

Sure Jamie's arc to redemption is a trope, and his deciding to forgo his path to honor to be with Cersei upends that trope, but I would've been ok with that had his decision been more than a spur of the moment thing. If he had been given the time to wrestle with his conscience and eventually realize Cersei is what truly mattered to him that would still have been anti-trope, but it would have felt like a continuation of his story instead of a random character change.

What, you think Jaime ever really stopped loving Cersei? Just because she did things that angered and disgusted him? He said a long time ago, you can't choose who you love and he cursed the gods for making him love a hateful woman. If they had shown him wrestling with his conscience over the course of a couple of episodes, we wouldn't have been so surprised when he decided to go back to her. And his "spur of the moment" decision was caused by what Sansa said to him about wanting to see Cersei executed. It was like a light bulb went off in his head. It's not unheard of for something to make people suddenly admit what they have been trying to deny. (Men especially, are supposed to be good at compartmentalizing their feelings.)

I think one reason it feels so rushed is in previous seasons there were more story lines going at once and the episodes were only an hour each. This season, scenes that might have been in multiple episodes are in one. For instance, in one episode we might have seen Sansa make that comment to Jaime and the look on his face, and that would be it for that episode, and we would have had time to digest it and contemplate what it might have meant before we saw him decide to go back to Cersei.  Anyway, just a thought.

Edited by SansaJonRule

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Everyone is ok with the whole character is just about to die but is inexplicably saved last sec? bc they've done that nearly dozens of times per episode since season 4. You know the executives at HBO study the amount of memes fans make about various characters and asked D&D to give those characters bigger roles in the show and more dialogue. That is how far the quality of the show has dropped 

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3 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

 

All the tropes are in place. The Starks have saved Winterfell and will live out their days. 

The only character being hurled on the pyre is Daenerys. 

We are getting the happy ending. It’s just that the show and books feel the need to humiliate and ruin my favourite character before all the Stark fan service. 

The Starks arent out of the woods yet. If you're talking Tyrion he has suffered a terrible disservice of storytelling since killing Tywin. If you're talking Dany, this is who she always was. 

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Just now, Winter prince said:

The Starks arent out of the woods yet. If you're talking Tyrion he has suffered a terrible disservice of storytelling since killing Tywin. If you're talking Dany, this is who she always was. 

Yeah because they really established that the kind hearted idealist that was so appalled by the very idea that one of her dragons might have burned a child that she chained them up under the city. yeah they really foreshadowed her burning a whole city full of women and children 

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3 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

We are getting the happy ending. It’s just that the show and books feel the need to humiliate and ruin my favourite character before all the Stark fan service. 

There's no happy ending for anyone after the latest episode, not even for the fan base. 

- Kings Landing and more or less it's entire population (1 million) was killed.
- Daenerys finally succumbed to the darkness in her and committed a bigger genocide in one episode than the NK did in 7 seasons, because of reasons.
- Jon and Tyrion will most likely partially blame themselves, knowing that they could've prevented this somehow, and this is a guilt that will never recede. I don't think Jon (assuming he survives) will ever forgive Sansa. He might fight Daenerys for her, but never forgive her, and Tyrion is pretty high up in my deadpool; Daenerys knows who freed Jamie, and why. 
- Most of the characters we've followed (and either loved or hated) for the entirety of the show are dead, and I'm willing to bet money on Daenerys not being the only named character to die in the last episode. 
- Remaining characters will be changed forever, and more or less all of them in a bad way: scarred, traumatized, depressed and regretful. 

The only remotely happy part of the ending we're seemingly getting is that Tormund and Ghost survived (and Sam but...meh) and will live out their days in the real north. 
 

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