Summerhall tragedy - new theory

[Masha]

Over past few days I been freaked out about rumors for new dark theory regarding my favorite Targaryen that have been very upsetting for me. That theory supposedly states that in order to hatch dragon eggs in Summerhall, the nicest Targ king - Egg was planning to sacrifice his newborn and only grandson Rhaegar. Thus the tragedy had occured because someone, like Dunk, prevented the sacrifice. 

Is there really such theory? Can someone point me in the right direction for it?

[chrisdaw]

Probably, but it's wrong. It will not have been Egg. It will have been done by sabotage in secret because Egg would never allow it, even though the saboteur was right and such a sacrifice is what was needed.

[Kobb]

1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

Probably, but it's wrong. It will not have been Egg. It will have been done by sabotage in secret because Egg would never allow it, even though the saboteur was right and such a sacrifice is what was needed.

Why are you so sure Egg wouldn't? Who knows how he changes over the years, we get very little from World of Ice and Fire and what we do get seems pretty bad.

[Aetta]

2 hours ago, Kobb said:

Why are you so sure Egg wouldn't? Who knows how he changes over the years, we get very little from World of Ice and Fire and what we do get seems pretty bad.

This. From what we do have, Egg got himself a little obsessed. Not surprising, and at least he didn't drink wildfire.

I also wouldn't say Egg was nice (although maybe for a Targ he was tolerable). As a child, I found him to be a pompous, sassy little turd and he put quite a few people at great risk with his actions.  Don't know why that would have changed as he adulted.

 

[chrisdaw]

2 hours ago, Kobb said:

Why are you so sure Egg wouldn't? Who knows how he changes over the years, we get very little from World of Ice and Fire and what we do get seems pretty bad.

Ok it's a possibility but I don't believe so as I see nothing to suggest a willingness for child sacrifice in Egg's character, and if this were the case I believe GRRM would have signalled it somewhere. In does run well with what we are given of Shiera and somewhat Bloodraven however.

[LynnS]

I thought they relied on pyromancers to hatch the eggs; who didn't know what they were doing' while making claims they had the knowledge and sorcery to do the deed.  The wildfire got away from them.
 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion V

"That is from the cold, my lord," said Hallyne, a pallid man with soft damp hands and an obsequious manner. He was dressed in striped black-and-scarlet robes trimmed with sable, but the fur looked more than a little patchy and moth-eaten. "As it warms, the substance will flow more easily, like lamp oil."

The substance was the pyromancers' own term for wildfire. They called each other wisdom as well, which Tyrion found almost as annoying as their custom of hinting at the vast secret stores of knowledge that they wanted him to think they possessed. Once theirs had been a powerful guild, but in recent centuries the maesters of the Citadel had supplanted the alchemists almost everywhere. Now only a few of the older order remained, and they no longer even pretended to transmute metals . . .

. . . but they could make wildfire. "Water will not quench it, I am told."

 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion V

"The substance flows through my veins, and lives in the heart of every pyromancer. We respect its power. But the common soldier, hmmmm, the crew of one of the queen's spitfires, say, in the unthinking frenzy of battle . . . any little mistake can bring catastrophe. That cannot be said too often. My father often told King Aerys as much, as his father told old King Jaehaerys."

 

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

A theory with zero textual evidence is not a theory. If you want to discuss it bring some quotes, back it up with SSM's and weave it together with historical references, folk lore, and meaning to the over all plot.  

[The Drunkard]

He became increasingly obsessed with bringing the dragons back as he grew older, believing that he could only ever reform the kingdom if he had dragons to enforce his decrees. He began to dream of them and sent expeditions across the world to learn whatever he could about reviving them. It culminated in him organising some unknown ritual involving pyromancers, wildfire and sorcery, as well as luring the extended Targaryen family tree to Summerhall on the pretext of celebrating Rhaegar's birth. Whatever betrayal happened there was horrible enough that none of the survivors would ever explain what happened nor explain who was responsible. 

“There is power in a king’s blood,” the old maester had warned, “and better men than Stannis have done worse things than this.”

If we ignore Aemon's clear senility (as evidenced by him thinking there could be a man better than Stannis), the sacrifice theory explains who exactly Aemon was referring to.

[Kobb]

8 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Ok it's a possibility but I don't believe so as I see nothing to suggest a willingness for child sacrifice in Egg's character, and if this were the case I believe GRRM would have signalled it somewhere. In does run well with what we are given of Shiera and somewhat Bloodraven however.

I would agree with you had GRRM concluded all his intended work on Egg's story, however we know for a fact that he intends to write at least 3-6 more Dunk & Egg stories. It's hardly surprising that we haven't seen a 10 year old character openly discussing child sacrifice.

As @The Drunkard commented above, basically the only things we've gotten regarding older Egg certainly seem to suggest a possible turn towards madness with a dragonfire obsession. I have to imagine the future installments (if we ever get them) will start heading in this direction, which would explain why George has kept Summerhall such a mystery. 

 

[Bael's Bastard]

16 hours ago, Masha said:

Over past few days I been freaked out about rumors for new dark theory regarding my favorite Targaryen that have been very upsetting for me. That theory supposedly states that in order to hatch dragon eggs in Summerhall, the nicest Targ king - Egg was planning to sacrifice his newborn and only grandson Rhaegar. Thus the tragedy had occured because someone, like Dunk, prevented the sacrifice. 

Is there really such theory? Can someone point me in the right direction for it?

That's not a new theory, but it is a completely baseless theory. There is evidence that Aegon V desperately wanted to bring back dragons, but there is no indication that he intended to harm his own family members to try to accomplish it. Nor is there any reason he would have had to think that such a thing would have been necessary or effective. 

[chrisdaw]

8 hours ago, Kobb said:

I would agree with you had GRRM concluded all his intended work on Egg's story, however we know for a fact that he intends to write at least 3-6 more Dunk & Egg stories. It's hardly surprising that we haven't seen a 10 year old character openly discussing child sacrifice. 

Yes there's a lot to go for Egg's development, however I would still expect something in the way of signalling he would be willing to go to extreme lengths or trend in some way instability. All the main character arcs are signalled in their first couple of chapters, young or old, it's just how GRRM writes, and I see no seeding for this sort of thing at all.

[NonoNono]

On 5/13/2019 at 4:27 PM, Masha said:

Over past few days I been freaked out about rumors for new dark theory regarding my favorite Targaryen that have been very upsetting for me. That theory supposedly states that in order to hatch dragon eggs in Summerhall, the nicest Targ king - Egg was planning to sacrifice his newborn and only grandson Rhaegar. Thus the tragedy had occured because someone, like Dunk, prevented the sacrifice. 

Is there really such theory? Can someone point me in the right direction for it?

I do believe Aegon was going to make some sort of sacrifice and Ducan probably had to stop him. There has to be some tragedy between them.

[Shi Qiang]

On 5/13/2019 at 4:27 PM, Masha said:

Over past few days I been freaked out about rumors for new dark theory regarding my favorite Targaryen that have been very upsetting for me. That theory supposedly states that in order to hatch dragon eggs in Summerhall, the nicest Targ king - Egg was planning to sacrifice his newborn and only grandson Rhaegar. Thus the tragedy had occured because someone, like Dunk, prevented the sacrifice. 

Is there really such theory? Can someone point me in the right direction for it?

Dragon eggs hatch without any need for mumbo jumbo human sacrifices.  Egg's eggs were fresher than the ones Daenerys had.  Resurrection was not needed.   They failed to hatch because Egg was not the special Targaryen that he believed he was.  Neither was Rhaegar.  Daenerys was destined to hatch those eggs because she is Azor Ahai and her coming was promised long ago.  Egg was just an ordinary Targaryen. 

[Seams]

I suspect the theory will prove true. Aegon V will cause the fire at Summerhall, and Dunk will rescue the baby Rhaegar but lose his old friend.

I do not have a ton of evidence to offer, but I think young Egg is trying to be a warlock, like his distant relative, Bloodraven. He seems to have some powers at a young age: he helps Maester Cerrick revive Dunk after he drowns and is stabbed and broken in other ways at Coldmoat. He is fascinated by the possibility that Rohanne Webber has a pact with demons that involves sacrificing newborn babies:

Whenever she gives birth, a demon comes by night to carry off the issue. Sam Stoops's wife says she sold her babes unborn to the Lord of the Seven Hells, so he'd teach her his black arts. ... Maybe she dances with demons and embroiders evils spells ...

The Sworn Sword

We also know that he has a bloodthirsty streak that can be directed toward members of his family. When his brother Aerion Brightflame is jousting, Egg may be cheering for his opponent:

"Kill him!" he shouted suddenly. "Kill him, he's right there, kill him, kill him, kill him!" Dunk was not certain which of the knights he was shouting to.

The Hedge Knight

His creepy tendencies also include a desire to learn from the small folk what they know about poisons:

I could teach them the arms of the great houses, and how Queen Alysanne convinced King Jaehaerys to abolish the first night. And they could teach me which weeds are best for making poisons, and whether those green berries are safe to eat.

The Sworn Sword

He also plays a role in the wedding feast that ends the feud between Rohanne Webber and Eustace Osgrey. Rohanne is a "kissed by fire" character and Standfast, the seat of Ser Eustace, is characterized by its eggs:

Shouldn't go turning over rocks, Lunk. Never know what might crawl out. We got us nice straw pallets back at Standfast. There's eggs more days than not, and not much to do but listen to Ser Useless go on about how great he used to be. Leave it be, I say. The stream went dry, that's all.

and even

The fire burned all through the night. ... They all wondered if the fire would engulf them. ...

He and Egg broke their fast on boiled eggs while Bennis was rousting the others outside for more drill. They are Osgrey men and we are not, he told himself. He ate four of the eggs. Ser Eustace owed him that much, as he saw it. Egg ate two.

The Sworn Sword

When he says they "broke their fast," this might be a hint that Standfast, the stone tower in which Dunk and Egg are staying, is an egg that has been hatched.

When Egg attends Ser Eustace at the wedding feast, he is helping to symbolically unite fire and eggs. I admit, he is not acting alone: the death of Ser Lucas seems to remove a spell -- or break a dam -- that warded Lady Rohanne or Coldmoat, and she is finally able to visit the grave of Addam Osgrey, her first love. The uniting of the two houses also protects Lady Rohanne's title and inheritance, allows Ser Eustace to return to his family home, unites two sides of the Blackfyre Rebellion, unites water with crops, and restores a fiefdom that had been divided. If this is symbolic of what happens when eggs and fire come together, maybe the larger goal of hatching a dragon egg is to bring these kinds of solutions and benefits to Westeros as a whole.

Of course, the Rohanne / Eustace wedding could not have taken place if Addam had lived. And it would have been unnecessary if Lady Rohanne's children had survived -- presumably her father would have allowed her children or grandchildren to inherit his estate and she would not have been given a deadline for her next marriage. So maybe the deaths of some children were necessary to "pay" for the happy outcome at Coldmoat and Standfast.

Any similarities to Egg's strategy at Summerhall?

[Shi Qiang]

Sacrificing baby Rhaegar is not going to produce magic.  The baby is not a king.  He was in the line of succession but he was far down.   Nor is he destined to become king.  Contrast this to the birth of Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion.  Three kings died.  King Viserys III, Khal Drogo, and the new Khal Rhaego.  Drogo was already vegetated when Rhaego lost his life.  So there was a brief period in which Rhaego inherited the khalasar.  And Rhaego was no ordinary baby.  He was technically crowned as the Stallion Who Will Mount the World.  Khal Drogo was every inch the undefeated king.  Viserys was crowned on Dragonstone by his mother, Queen Rhaella.  Three kings were sacrificed.  The sacrifice of Rhaegar is not the equivalent. 

I'm not saying Aegon V wasn't willing to sacrifice Rhaegar.  Maybe he was.  It wouldn't have worked.  He's not the promised one and Rhaegar was not a king.   We don't know what ritual Aegon tried.  He was following ancient text.  Maybe the joke was on him.  What he thought was directions for hatching dragon eggs was nothing more than a recipe for barbecue written by a long dead Valyrian chef.