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1 minute ago, Chris is my name said:

Right, it still may be possible in the books, but very hard to say; it seems like the books suggest that there needs to be an existing link between the skinchanger and the animal. And I'm not sure what using Drogon to dump Dany in the Dothraki sea would accomplish, as her position in Meereen wasn't so promising to begin with.

 

To get the result that we saw in the show - saving Dany from the Sons of the Harpy and leading to her obtaining a Dothraki horde.

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57 minutes ago, Chris is my name said:

Yes but the original question: why Bran? Why was it necessary for Jojen and Meera to get him there; if the purpose was understood, why wouldn't Jojen, who was also a greenseer, just train under the 3ER himself?

Jojen didn't have all of the required abilities to be a 3ER.  For instance, Jojen wasn't a warg.

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4 hours ago, The Red Waste said:

Most likely reason is they just wanted to fuck with your head. Is she mad? Just pissed off?! Posessed by Bran??!! OMG, is it The Night King??!!!!!

Tune in next week to find out but don't forget to talk and speculate as much as possible in the meantime, it all helps boost the ratings. 

Talking and speculating is what we do :)  It's all fun.

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Just now, Tywin Tytosson said:

To get the result that we saw in the show - saving Dany from the Sons of the Harpy and leading to her obtaining a Dothraki horde.

I suppose.

But I still am struggling to see how show!Bran has accomplished anything other than hastening the arrival of the Long Night (which fortunately, in the show, wasn't that big of a deal.)

It's hard to imagine anything other than the 3ER being an agent of the CotF. The WW seem to have turned on the CotF; perhaps the 3ER was their way of reorienting them back on target?

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4 hours ago, Daemos said:

It is possible that Bran, knowing everything that has come to past, has been playing the Game of Thrones on another level all along, and so has the NK. What Bran effectively did is set the stage not for him defeating the only true threat to his victory (NK), but also the destruction of all other threats by pitting them against one another using the knowledge he gained for each.

Bran does all of this  for the same reasons that the Night King did, as a 'Reluctant King' to avoid history repeating itself which they both knew will inevitably. They just went on about it differently.

If this turns out to be Bran's endgame, then his purpose was to become King after Dany breaks the wheel so that he can rebuild it or replace it with something much more refined.

Bran sets things up to take out Ice.  Then sets up things to take out Fire.  Balance restored.

 

Maybe that's why he insisted on telling Jon his heritage at the time that he did.  To setup Fire for its takedown.

(admittedly grasping for straws on that that one, but why not?)

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2 minutes ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Jojen didn't have all of the required abilities to be a 3ER.  For instance, Jojen wasn't a warg.

That does seem to be an important distinction, but the show has not demonstrated any reason why it would be necessary. Its only function appears to have been for airborne scouting and frying the minds of stable boys.

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2 minutes ago, Chris is my name said:

I suppose.

But I still am struggling to see how show!Bran has accomplished anything other than hastening the arrival of the Long Night (which fortunately, in the show, wasn't that big of a deal.)

It's hard to imagine anything other than the 3ER being an agent of the CotF. The WW seem to have turned on the CotF; perhaps the 3ER was their way of reorienting them back on target?

The WW did seem to turn on the CotF.  I don't know about reorienting the WW back on target, but the 3ER maybe was a countermeasure to the WW.  Maybe created after the Great War of the Dawn was won.  Or maybe not.  Maybe created after the Pact.

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1 minute ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Bran sets things up to take out Ice.  Then sets up things to take out Fire.  Balance restored.

 

Maybe that's why he insisted on telling Jon his heritage at the time that he did.  To setup Fire for its takedown.

(admittedly grasping for straws on that that one, but why not?)

I think this may be on the right track--the 3ER/CotF are trying to eliminate magic (both of the hot and cold variety) from the realms of men. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Chris is my name said:

That does seem to be an important distinction, but the show has not demonstrated any reason why it would be necessary. Its only function appears to have been for airborne scouting and frying the minds of stable boys.

And warging into the weirwood trees to access their memories.  'Tis why the wierwoods have faces carved into them.

You're right - the show doesn't make that an important distinction.   The books do, though.  The weirwood warging occurs in the books, not the show.

Edited by Tywin Tytosson

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

And warging into the weirwood trees to access their memories.  'Tis why the wierwoods have faces carved into them.

Yes but that is muddying greensight and warging a bit, and in the books he doesn't gain this ability until he is fed the weirwood paste in the cave of the 3ER (i.e. it is a trained ability.) But this is beside the point ^_^

My main purpose in starting this thread was that, without further explanation, Bran/3ER storyline seemed to have served no purpose other than a plot contrivance (via character incompetence) to bring about the war with the zombies. The 3ER was safe until Bran misused his powers and received a mark; this I was fine with. He then has to become the 3ER to ensure the knowledge and skills survive; also fine. But why then, knowing he had a homing signal on him, would he willingly go south of the Wall? And, as they never let us forget, he is not Bran anymore, so what purpose would he have to go to Winterfell?

Certainly that won't be the story in the books, but is it possible that D & D will simply think we won't notice?

Edited by Chris is my name

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Chris is my name said:

Yes but that is muddying greensight and warging a bit, and in the books he doesn't gain this ability until he is fed the weirwood paste in the cave of the 3ER (i.e. it is a trained ability.) But this is beside the point ^_^

My main purpose in starting this thread was that, without further explanation, Bran/3ER storyline seemed to have served no purpose other than a plot contrivance (via character incompetence) to bring about the war with the zombies. The 3ER was safe until Bran misused his powers and received a mark; this I was fine with. He then has to become the 3ER to ensure the knowledge and skills survive; also fine. But why then, knowing he had a homing signal on him, would he willingly go south of the Wall? And, as they never let us forget, he is not Bran anymore, so what purpose would he have to go to Winterfell?

Hmm...The WW and the dead couldn't go through the wall, so going south of the Wall was tantamount to making it to safety.  For a time, anyways.

Winterfell ... good question.. hmm.. Well, he still looks like Bran and has Bran's memories, so he would be welcomed into Winterfell and be safe there (wrt humans).  Winterfell also has a Godswood with a large, old Heart Tree .  And Winterfell is the capital of the North and its greatest fortress.  There really is nowhere that's safer in Westeros, except the Eyrie, Casterly Rock, and Storm's End.

Racefortheironthrone has some nice articles or tumblr responses that argue convincingly that Winterfell was more that a fortress - it was a giant engine designed to fight the Others.  If so, then it is THE best place for the 3ER to be.

If Bran is Bran the Builder, then he built Winterfell.

Depending on how much you credit you want to give the 3ER, then he know that he has to be there for the shot to take out the NK to occur.

 

Quote

Certainly that won't be the story in the books, but is it possible that D & D will simply think we won't notice?

I hope that's not the case.  We will see. 

Yessssss... we will ssssssseeee, precioussss.   Oops.  Wrong character.  Wrong story.  :drunk:

Edited by Tywin Tytosson

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3 hours ago, Chris is my name said:

Yes but the original question: why Bran? Why was it necessary for Jojen and Meera to get him there; if the purpose was understood, why wouldn't Jojen, who was also a greenseer, just train under the 3ER himself?

No, no, no, no, no. Jojen was never a greenseer! He had green dreams, which is not at all the same thing. A greenseer must be born to it, has to have the right blood. One in a million. Then it has to be activated by the weirwood sacrament. 

 

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8 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

No, no, no, no, no. Jojen was never a greenseer! He had green dreams, which is not at all the same thing. A greenseer must be born to it, has to have the right blood. One in a million. Then it has to be activated by the weirwood sacrament. 

 

Yes, fair enough, but it's still not clear why it is relevant or what it means for the story. In the show, his role as the 3ER served really no purpose in the war with the dead, which makes it very strange that Jojen sacrificed his life to get Bran north.

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10 hours ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Depending on how much you credit you want to give the 3ER, then he know that he has to be there for the shot to take out the NK to occur.

That's the part that is strange in the show: all of that story, Bran/Jojen/Meera's relentless march north, the frying of Hodor, the visions; it was all just about giving a knife to Arya?

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Chris is my name said:

That's the part that is strange in the show: all of that story, Bran/Jojen/Meera's relentless march north, the frying of Hodor, the visions; it was all just about giving a knife to Arya?

Giving that knife to Arya would have been a big part of it.  Not the end-all.  The show certainly doesn't make this clear.

The 3ER would be playing a long game, over the course of hundreds, if not thousands of years.  Setting up things all over Westeros, and maybe all of Planetos.   Arya's part is just obvious because of its direct effect on the result.  And we were shown it.

Edited by Tywin Tytosson

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11 hours ago, Chris is my name said:

I think this may be on the right track--the 3ER/CotF are trying to eliminate magic (both of the hot and cold variety) from the realms of men. 

Without Ice, Fire is no longer needed.  And as we have seen, it is as destructive as Ice, if not  more so.

Fire (eg: Valyria) may have been propped up to help fight Ice (eg: WW).

I could see the CotF trying to eliminate magic from humans.  Perhaps they are in league with the Citadel.  :)

 

Random thought.  Ice is frozen water.  Water seems to be a big part of the Children's magic.  Fire appears to be a big part of human magic. 

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On 5/13/2019 at 9:34 PM, UnViserion said:

You just wait. It will be revealed that Bran is warging Dany, causing her to destroy any chance she had at ruling. Probably to improve Jon’s odds of taking the throne. Or someone else’s, who knows.

Wait -- I thought Varys was slow-poisoning Dany?  If you are right, looks like more than one person was trying to kill Dany.

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

Wait -- I thought Varys was slow-poisoning Dany?  If you are right, looks like more than one person was trying to kill Dany.

I mean, it's possible, but I don't think there is much evidence for this at all. To me, the scene with Varys that opens episode 5 was there simply to fast-track our attention to the fact that her advisors were abandoning her and set up the "madness" turn.

Edited by Chris is my name

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Tyrion: You are the Lord of Winterfell, you should sit on the throne.

Bran: I do not want to sit on a throne.

....

Varys: We need someone who does not want the throne.

—> 

Conclusion: Since every human on the throne got corrupted by their desires one way or another, it will seem the best choice to choose someone who literally „do not want anymore“(Bran).

I know - I hate that, but thats gonna be it. They will put an empty shell, a not-human, a puppet on the throne. That does not make sense, since in reality no folks would follow someone like that. On the other hand: What folks, they all burnt. 

 

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