Northmen slaughtering civilians

[Nictarion]

20 minutes ago, Dragons 7th Eye said:

"There's a beast in every man, and it stirs when you put a sword in his hand", Ser Jorah.

He was not quite as accurate right after that, though.

I get Grey Worm was angry, heart broken and bitter. But, he needs to get his head removed in the last episode. Attacking men that have surrendered is a grave sin and he did it on purpose to start the slaughter.

I hated the episode like almost all of them for years, but that was actually a well done scene, in my opinion.

Cersei is the one that set the tone when she executed a POW during a parley why shouldn’t  GW be expected to give the Lannister soldiers no quarter? 

[Kajjo]

4 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

Well, we have actually seen the most moral man in the universe burn armies, kill a family member, a former lover, threaten more family members, bully people and beat a man to death with a shield. This was back when the show wasn’t black and white. 

Who do you mean?! Not Tyrion? Most moral?! Not at all. He is a drinker and all-time-john.

3 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

All this time the northerners has been depicted as "the good guys" (mostly) and the lannisters as "the bad guys" (mostly).

Not really. The Northerners are depicted as not wanting to submit, but they are rough, tough, direct, a bit cold. Not "good" in particular.

The Lannister soldiers were never shown to be particularly "bad". Just the Lannister family was sinister and prone to intrigue and traps like the Red Wedding. The soldiers Arya met in S7 were just normal guys.

[Kajjo]

30 minutes ago, Dragons 7th Eye said:

I get Grey Worm was angry, heart broken and bitter.

Yes, he sort of snapped, too. Seeing Daenerys living out her bitterness, he did so, too, and relished in killing the enemy.

31 minutes ago, Dragons 7th Eye said:

But, he needs to get his head removed in the last episode. Attacking men that have surrendered is a grave sin and he did it on purpose to start the slaughter.

My goodness. It's war. They were his enemies. After Daenerys, his commander, continuing the attack, he just followed her example. Yes, it is not moral to do so. Yes, it is a mistake. But a "sin" has a religious touch to it that does not apply here anyway and the enemy had just killed his love. I can understand him. 

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

I would like to think even in my most bloodlusted state that I wouldn't be able to strike down someone that is both unarmed/innocent.

I get the blood lusted thing but these men were able to momentarily differentiate their own men from the enemy to avoid killing each other surely in the same amount of time they could see an innocent from a soldier and not take a swipe at them... esp kids.

 

[BlackLightning]

13 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Cersei is the one that set the tone when she executed a POW during a parley why shouldn’t  GW be expected to give the Lannister soldiers no quarter? 

Thank you for making this clear.

Cersei broke the code. Parleys are supposed to be peaceful discussions and conferences in a time of war. Out of all the parleys you've seen one screen, no one has died.

I wonder why.

Once Cersei killed Missandei needlessly (and stupidly if I might add, a beloved hostage would have come in handy in this episode), all bets were off.

[Dragonslack]

Realities of war folks, a nasty war and war is nasty. Fools should not have gone there except if starving.

Northmen are actually the roughest and the ones with a bigger grudge.

 

 

[King Jon Snow Stark]

2 hours ago, Haskelltier said:

To be fair, Grey Worm was commander of the Unsullied and he literally threw the first spear. The Dothraki are bloodthirsty barbarians, who hardly speak the common tongue. And Jon had literally seconds between the first dead Lannister and the two armies (Lannisters on the one side, Unsullied, Dothraki and Northmen on the other side) meating in battle. There was nothing he could do to stop that. And of course the Lannisters will pick up weapons when they were attacked. Thats pure instinct.

Even Stannis or Randyl Tarly wouldn't be able to handle the situation differently (with a spear throwing commander of the Unsullied and undisciplined Dothraki in line).

Yup. He was attacked by a Lannister soldier. The northern rapist dude tried to kill his own commander. They were basically following the Queen and she was f--king things up. 

[Dragons 7th Eye]

Cersei executed a POW, yes. Her sin. It does nothing to absolve Dany for hers, for slaughtering thousands of completely defenseless bystanders that were in no way or form responsible for that.

It was not war. War was over. KL had surrendered. What Dany did, what Greyworm did and what the Unsullied Dothraki Northmen and The Lords of the Vale did was just murder.

Yes, war is brutal. I know it. Collateral damage is unavoidable I know that, too. Sometimes people even cause civilian casualties to instill fear or even for sheer cruelty and bloodlust. Check.

Judging by how many unsullied and dothraki lived through the Battle of Winterfell the damage to KL may be a bit overestimated - but in the least thousands died because Dany did not accept not only surrender of the Lannister troops but also went straight for most casualties she could inflict. More likely tens of thousands whose deaths were completely unnecessary for Dany's ascension to throne and even less useful for bringing Missy back.

A noble Dany would have spared everyone except and beheaded or dracarysed Cersei, Tyrion and the rest severely in the need of it in the next episode.

A bit more realistic scenario would have been to fly straight to the Red Keep and make a BBQ Cersei.

A mad dany would have roasted the surrendered Lannister troops on her way there.

What she did was go zig zagging through the city murdering people. That is mass murder on massive scale. Off with her head in the next episode, and deservedly so. It is just the question of who does it.

[ramla]

16 hours ago, Skills said:

I get them going after the Lannister army, even after they were unarmed, given all the bad blood between them and the North.

But the butchering of the civilians?  Just chalk it up to the horrors of war?  Just seemed...odd, especially since Jon couldn't restrain them. 

And its not clear weather Jon is the commander of the northmen or not because they don't listen to him at all. Its absolutely silly. And its not the horrors of War because they didn't really enter battle that much. The golden company was annihilated by Dany. All they did was walk in... and go mad. smh

[RhaenysBee]

3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Who do you mean?! Not Tyrion? Most moral?! Not at all. He is a drinker and all-time-john.

Not really. The Northerners are depicted as not wanting to submit, but they are rough, tough, direct, a bit cold. Not "good" in particular.

The Lannister soldiers were never shown to be particularly "bad". Just the Lannister family was sinister and prone to intrigue and traps like the Red Wedding. The soldiers Arya met in S7 were just normal guys.

Yeah i was referring to Tyrion but it was sarcastic, the label comes from a PJ review. 

 

[Kajjo]

1 minute ago, RhaenysBee said:

Yeah i was referring to Tyrion but it was sarcastic, the label comes from a PJ review. 

OK, understood.

[MinscS2]

3 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Once Cersei killed Missandei needlessly (and stupidly if I might add, a beloved hostage would have come in handy in this episode), all bets were off.

I felt a mild disgust at how this episode tried it's hardest to make me feel sorry for Cersei in her final moments.

No show, I won't forget all the horrors and atrocities Cersei has ever committed over the last 7 seasons just because there is a new, even madder queen in town. She made her own bed years ago and her death was long overd...don't you dare kill her of by dropping debris on her! ... *sigh*

[Hodor's Dragon]

Just now, MinscS2 said:

I felt a mild disgust at how this episode tried it's hardest to make me feel sorry for Cersei in her final moments.

No show, I won't forget all the horrors and atrocities Cersei has ever committed over the last 7 seasons just because there is a new, even madder queen in town. She made her own bed years ago and her death was long overd...don't you dare kill her of by dropping debris on her! ... *sigh*

Perhaps episode 8 will be about the heroic attempt to dig a rescue tunnel to Cersei.

[BlackLightning]

Just now, MinscS2 said:

I felt a mild disgust at how this episode tried it's hardest to make me feel sorry for Cersei in her final moments.

No show, I won't forget all the horrors and atrocities Cersei has ever committed over the last 7 seasons just because there is a new, even madder queen in town. She made her own bed years ago and her death was long overd...don't you dare kill her of by dropping debris on her! ... *sigh*

Yeah.

Tywin Lannister can be murdered by his own son on the toilet, gored by two crossbow arrows.

Joffrey can be poisoned and choke to death at his own horror show of a wedding.

Ramsay can be fed to his own man-eating dogs.

The High Sparrow spends his final moments realizing he has been duped by Cersei before being killed by wildfire.

Walder Frey's throat is slit by a descendant of the Stark and Tully line after realizing that the contents of the meat pie he was eating were his sons.

Stannis lose everything in a day and then be executed for killing his brother with blood magic.

The khals who betrayed and abandoned Drogo and threatened to rape, torture and kill Daenerys were burnt alive.

But Cersei Lannister gets to die poignantly in the arms of "the love of her life," thereby receiving a semblance of comfort and peace that she denied to Ned Stark, Margaery Tyrell, etc.

 

[Kajjo]

14 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

But Cersei Lannister gets to die poignantly in the arms of "the love of her life," thereby receiving a semblance of comfort and peace that she denied to Ned Stark, Margaery Tyrell, etc.

Yes, life is not fair. What do you expect? Everything going Hollywoodish correct to balance guilt and kind of death? That would be obvious nonsense.