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Daemos

This is all Jon’s fault

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, weirwoodface said:

You are correct that it is about the consequences and the impact, but Sansa telling Tyrion isn't the same as Sansa actively working to "destroy" Dany. People are going to do what people are going to do and if Daenerys cannot handle the truth getting around--which it was, eventually, like it or not--then Daenerys is likely not suited to rule Westeros. That is the consequence.

This is exactly what it was and that's why Sansa is sharing it, because she is looking out for a way to destroy Dany. Otherwise she has no reason to share it as this secret has no other significance or role to play since John doesn't want the throne. So this secret doesn't target John's claim but Dany's destruction through it. 

If she burned them for being traitors - she wouldn't be wrong.  They all gave promises and affirmations they couldn't keep to play their games.

Edited by Nightwish

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Posted (edited)

The bottom line fact is she has no claim to the throne compared to Jon. All the Dany fans are furious because Jon told his relatives and others the truth. But because her fans are so fanatical in the their view that she is basically entitled to anything and everything, that fact seems to go unheeded.

In their minds she can do basically anything she wants, and if it goes south it’s always someone else’s fault. They will make every excuse for her behaving the way she does, just look at some of the posts on this thread.

Thank God this isn’t real because some of us who don’t just follow other people blindly would be in some deep shit. . . 

Edited by Green Knight

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1 minute ago, Green Knight said:

The bottom line fact is she has no claim to the throne compared to Jon. All the Dany fans are furious because Jon told his relatives and others the truth. But because her fans are so fanatical in the their view that she is basically entitled to anything and everything, that fact seems to go unheeded.

In their minds she can do basically anything she wants, and if it goes south it’s always someone else’s fault. They will make every excuse for her behaving the way she does, just look at some of the posts on this thread.

Thank God this isn’t real because some of us who don’t just follow other people blindly would be in some deep shit. . . 

The one scene I wanted was cut away from. Jon, Sansa, Arya and Branbot 3000 talking about Ned and what he did. Jon only told his family. Sam knows so who knows who he told. 

I would argue Jon has no claim either. And then only reason that Dany is Queen is she is taking it by force. Her family dynasty ended. 

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2 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

The bottom line fact is she has no claim to the throne compared to Jon. All the Dany fans are furious because Jon told his relatives and others the truth. But because her fans are so fanatical in the their view that she is basically entitled to anything and everything, that fact seems to go unheeded.

Sure she has. She is the one with the dragons and the armies, which is always the best claim there is.

There is also the fact that there is literally zero proof for Jon being Rhaegar's son than "My weird bro saw it in a vision" Who the hell would believe this weak sauce? The fact that everyone on the show bought it right away is just dumb.

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1 minute ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

The one scene I wanted was cut away from. Jon, Sansa, Arya and Branbot 3000 talking about Ned and what he did. Jon only told his family. Sam knows so who knows who he told. 

I would argue Jon has no claim either. And then only reason that Dany is Queen is she is taking it by force. Her family dynasty ended. 

Interesting. Why would you think Jon has no claim? Is it because the dynasty ended? 

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6 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

The bottom line fact is she has no claim to the throne compared to Jon. All the Dany fans are furious because Jon told his relatives and others the truth. But because her fans are so fanatical in the their view that she is basically entitled to anything and everything, that fact seems to go unheeded.

In their minds she can do basically anything she wants, and if it goes south it’s always someone else’s fault. They will make every excuse for her behaving the way she does, just look at some of the posts on this thread.

Thank God this isn’t real because some of us who don’t just follow other people blindly would be in some deep shit. . . 

She has every claim. He resigned. John gave her the right to the throne. 

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3 hours ago, Pwyll41 said:

Get over the Dany love.  She was abused by her brother, raped by her first husband.  Was fucking her nephew.  Burned whoever opposed her at the time.  She is the epitome of the Mad Targ.  By the way....the dragon's are only her children IN HER MIND.  The equivalent of a crazy cat lady.  If she laid the eggs she would be their 'mother'. Plus, IF she was their mother she did a shitty job of it. One time she had them chained up, She continually exposed them to danger and being human...was never their mother.

Everyone who interacted with her has contributed to her enablement as bat shit crazy.  It was always just a step away.

So if Jon had willing to have slept with the mess that was Dani she would not have burned kings landing. Jon s fault is not seducing his aunt. Jon s fault is going south and not listening to his sisters.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

She has every claim. He resigned. John gave her the right to the throne. 

You don’t just “resign” from something like that. You either have it or you don't and thats why she so desperately wants it kept a secret. Because she knows his claim blows away hers.

Edited by Green Knight

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Interesting. Why would you think Jon has no claim? Is it because the dynasty ended? 

Yes because it was taken from them. And it wasn't going to be given back. She is the only with the power to do it. Cersei isnt going to give it to Jon. She would order his death on the spot. Dany is reestablishing Targ rule by force not because of a claim. She is a conqueror. That's just my opinion.

Now Jon is the true heir of the previous rulers and he could have been her heir after she established her rule.  

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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3 minutes ago, Skeletor said:

So if Jon had willing to have slept with the mess that was Dani she would not have burned kings landing. Jon s fault is not seducing his aunt. Jon s fault is going south and not listening to his sisters.

And if “if’s and but’s were candies and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas”...

at what point is it her responsibility for her own actions? 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Yes because it was taken from them. And it was going to be given back. She is the only with the power to do it. Cersei isnt going to give it to Jon. She would order his death on the spot. Dany is reestablishing Targ rule by force not because of a claim. She is a conqueror. That's just my opinion.

Now Jon is the true heir of the previous rulers and he could have been her heir after she established her rule.  

Finally a well reasoned, lucid argument I can understand and accept besides the “she’s entitled to it all because” mentality. 

 

There are counterpoints to it one could make of course but the basis of your reasoning is sound. 

Edited by Green Knight

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7 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

You don’t just “resign” from something like that. You either have it or you don't and thats why she so desperately wants it kept a secret. Because she knows his claim blows away hers.

Bran did. By rights, he should be the Lord of Winterfell. But he abdicated in favor of Sansa.

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3 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

But it’s not common practice with the Starks. 

It actually is common. It's another plot hole.

The showrunners keep forgetting their own show's continuity.

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Just now, Jabar of House Titan said:

Bran did. By rights, he should be the Lord of Winterfell. But he abdicated in favor of Sansa.

I get that. That’s not the point. The point is Bran is still the true heir over Sansa whether he wants it or not. If he turns it down that’s another thing entirely but that doesn’t lessen his claim one bit. 

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19 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

The bottom line fact is she has no claim to the throne compared to Jon.

Honestly, the only person who has a claim is the person who takes it.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

You don’t just “resign” from something like that. You either have it or you don't and thats why she so desperately wants it kept a secret. Because she knows his claim blows away hers.

Again with the claim argument. He doesn’t want it and that’s the end of his claim. What Dany afraids and thinks is her mentality. For John is done and so if you support the “is entitled” argument you have to accept that he has no longer claim for the throne and you can’t accuse Dany that she is not entitled to. 

What others tried to do behind their backs is wrong and seeing as a betrayal exactly because of this.

Edited by Nightwish

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Daemos said:

Disregarding the bad writing and execution, but what unfolded in this episode and last is all Jon’s fault. If he was there for Dany emotionally in her darkest hour, she would’ve never gone over the edge. She needed ice to keep her cool, but he betrayed her on so many levels. 

She even gave love one last chance when she tried to kiss him and he failed her then again. It was fear from then on, for good most likely.

 

This massacre is on that dumbass as much as it is on Dany. 

 

 

How does one disregard "Bad Writing"? 

And as far as Jon is concerned, he can't be held responsible for what happened... Dany isn't controlled by him... She is responsible for her own actions. She won the day then went overboard and killed hundreds of thousands. That had NOTHING to do with Jon. Jon was written to be oblivious and dumb for the sake of the plot yet and still he didn't push dany to do anything. 

Edited by ramla

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Just now, weirwoodface said:

Honestly, the only person who has a claim is the person who takes it.

Like I said, that argument I can get behind. It’s the “she’s entitled” folks that bother me. 

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3 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Finally a well reasoned, lucid argument I can understand and accept besides the “she’s entitled to it all because” mentality. 

 

There are counterpoints to it one could make of course but the basis of your reasoning is sound. 

I don't think she is entitled to it. She might think that and she says it over and over again. When she left Essos she was an invader with support with some lords and a famous name.  

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I'm hoping all this will be a Bran or Ned Stark dream which would blow people's minds if there is kind of a reset and Ned pushes for t hem to kill Dany so dragons are never born and Ned tells Robert Jeffrey is jokes mid and gendry is his real son.

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