Kajjo Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 How will our protagonists react to what happened? (1) Jon/Sansa -- Will he be very pissed that she broke her oath and put him in this position? Sansa more or less caused all the trouble with her betrayal. Daenerys possible had not snapped at exactly this point without the betrayal. Will Jon forgive her? Be extremely angry with her and split allegiance? (2) Jon/Daenerys -- Will Daenerys simply return to Dragonstone and talk normally to all of them? Will Jon follow to Dragonstone or simply split up and go his own way? (3) Will Tyrion dare to go back or flee after freeing Jaime and failing this last time. He knows he has no more forgiveness to expect from Daenerys now. (4) I expect Grey Worm to continue to be on Daenerys' side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Rootbreaker Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Grey Worm is a no brainer, he is Daenerys through and through Tyrion, I don't think there is any way that Dany would know he betrayed her, unless they bring in some heavy equipment to excavate and find Jamie among the rubble with Cersei. Even if she doesn't find out, Tyrion is deep in trouble, but I'm holding out hope his is safe somehow. Let's hope for ep 6 they make him smart again and he finds a way to ally with Ayra, Jon and Davos before Dany gets to him. I don't think it will bother Sansa one bit that her betrayal might have led to this. I don't think she sees it that way at all. She is not loyal to Dany one bit now, but is pretty safe 1500 miles away. Except for Drogon who can apparently reach Mach 10 between episodes. I think Jon will be beyond pissed, and will definitely not forgive her. Stark honor or not, he will totally leave her, if not be the one to kill her since I doubt she'll take the rejection well. Remember when Ned Stark refused to follow Robert when he wanted to kill Dany back in season 1? It's not impossible for that Stark allegiance to disappear when their leader goes too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter prince Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I'm going to summarize some of this instead of a response in bullet format. I dont think we return to Dragonstone again. Our story is in Kingslanding now. I believe the beginning of the episode will be an attempt to rationalize all of what happened. Tyrion will make his final mistake thinking he can talk to Dany but will find out she knows about him releasing Jaime. She will execute him. All nobles in the 7 kingdoms will be demanded to go to kingslanding to swear fealty to their new queen. Jon will stand by her side because he has pledged to her. Contrary to most beliefs he takes his oaths very seriously. Sansa will refuse to go South to bend the knee. Instead of going all fire and blood Dany will task Jon with handling Winterfells refusal. At this point he will make his stand against her. Grey Worm and the unsullied remain on team Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Rootbreaker Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Winter prince said: Tyrion will make his final mistake thinking he can talk to Dany but will find out she knows about him releasing Jaime. She will execute him. How will she know he released Jamie? I'm genuinely curious because I think all evidence has been destroyed. Even if someone saw Jamie out and about that still does not prove Tyrion released him, although it would be the obvious explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, House Rootbreaker said: How will she know he released Jamie? I'm genuinely curious because I think all evidence has been destroyed. Even if someone saw Jamie out and about that still does not prove Tyrion released him, although it would be the obvious explanation. It's not hard to figure out. The Unsullied let Tyrion into Jaime's tent because he outranks them as the Hand of the Queen. Tyrion is seen entering Jaime's tent. Tyrion leaves Jaime's tent. Jaime is nowhere to be found later that night or just before daybreak. There's no sign of struggle in the tent. His chains were unlocked, not broken or burnt. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. It is more believable for Daenerys to figure out that Tyrion set Jaime free than it is for her to miraculously know that Jon told Sansa who told Tyrion who told Varys and now Varys is plotting to overthrow and/or kill her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinscS2 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I guess that ultimately we will get some sort of Jamie/Aerys parallel between Jon and Daenerys. Daenerys will want Sansa dead for her earlier transgressions/betrayal, possibly trying to get Jon to bring her Sansas head, and this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Daenerys will trust in Jon's sense of honor (and the fact that she has saved his life twice already), but he will finally forsake it and become both Queen- and Kinslayer in one single thrust with Longclaw. I also think that Jon will be pretty pissed at Sansa. She will want him to take the throne and he will tell her to fuck off. (Perhaps not in those words.) If Tyrion know whats good for him, he will stay away from Daenerys. Honestly, at this point, what does he even have to say to her? Greyworm is solidly in team Daenerys until he (or she) dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Rootbreaker Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said: It's not hard to figure out. The Unsullied let Tyrion into Jaime's tent because he outranks them as the Hand of the Queen. Tyrion is seen entering Jaime's tent. Tyrion leaves Jaime's tent. Jaime is nowhere to be found later that night or just before daybreak. There's no sign of struggle in the tent. His chains were unlocked, not broken or burnt. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. Jamie is nowhere to be found and no one says anything? That's harder to believe. What happens off camera is totally up to the writers and unknown to the viewers. What evidence do you have that you saw on the actual screen that she knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dayne Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, House Rootbreaker said: How will she know he released Jamie? I'm genuinely curious because I think all evidence has been destroyed. Even if someone saw Jamie out and about that still does not prove Tyrion released him, although it would be the obvious explanation. I suppose the Unsullied who were tasked with guarding Jaime could tell Grayworm that Tyrion dismissed them IF they survived the battle, and IF he questions them about it. But, it was all chaos and mayhem at KL, so it seems unlikely that she would find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 14, 2019 Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 25 minutes ago, House Rootbreaker said: Tyrion, I don't think there is any way that Dany would know he betrayed her If the guards survived they will have to explain why their prisoner is gone. They will tell her Tyrion did so. No matter whether they find Jaime's corpse or not. Tyrion set Jaime free and that will be known. 27 minutes ago, House Rootbreaker said: I don't think it will bother Sansa one bit that her betrayal might have led to this. I don't think she sees it that way at all. She is not loyal to Dany one bit now I agree. 28 minutes ago, House Rootbreaker said: I think Jon will be beyond pissed, and will definitely not forgive her. Stark honor or not, he will totally leave her, if not be the one to kill her Yes, agreed. I fear Jon breaks up his family ties to Sansa when he learns of this uttermost betrayal. This might be an important turning point in the storyline to come. 22 minutes ago, Winter prince said: I believe the beginning of the episode will be an attempt to rationalize all of what happened. Agreed. Some licking of the wounds, some taking in of it all. Maybe showing us the destroyed Iron Throne. 23 minutes ago, Winter prince said: Tyrion will make his final mistake thinking he can talk to Dany but will find out she knows about him releasing Jaime. She will execute him. I am afraid so. He deserves it, even if I thought he would survive the series. 24 minutes ago, Winter prince said: All nobles in the 7 kingdoms will be demanded to go to kingslanding to swear fealty to their new queen. Jon will stand by her side because he has pledged to her. Contrary to most beliefs he takes his oaths very seriously. Interesting idea. Problem is, most of the seven kingdoms have no leader in the moment. Jon might continue to be true to her. He might also rebel now that she committed such a unforgivable crime. 25 minutes ago, Winter prince said: Grey Worm and the unsullied remain on team Dany. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Rootbreaker Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lady Dayne said: I suppose the Unsullied who were tasked with guarding Jaime could tell Grayworm that Tyrion dismissed them IF they survived the battle, and IF he questions them about it. But, it was all chaos and mayhem at KL, so it seems unlikely that she would find out. That was my thinking. Seems unlikely, and for something that carries such drastic consequences for one of the most important characters of the series you would think Tyrion wouldn't be undone by something a random Unsullied did off camera. You would think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, House Rootbreaker said: How will she know he released Jamie? I'm genuinely curious because I think all evidence has been destroyed. Even if someone saw Jamie out and about that still does not prove Tyrion released him, although it would be the obvious explanation. The guards guarding Jamie presumably will recognize him and since he's a dwarf it can't really be a case of mistaken identity. Tyrion is absolutely guilty of treason, multiple treasons against Dany is more guilty than the people of KL's. Sansa has also straight up committed treason, for no good either except that she is power mad in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Knight Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Tyrion pulled rank and ordered his guards away then went to the tent. When he came back out Jamie was gone and his chains were unlocked. Now I don’t know about any of you but I was in the army for nine years and in Law enforcement for twenty two. Even when there is a war going on you don’t just leave prisoners unguarded. Even if ordered to by a higher ranking person. There is a long chain of command and eventually someone has to answer for whatever goes on. On the show they act like the guards are just told to walk away and then that’s the last anyone ever even thinks about the high value prisoner. It doesn’t work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 14, 2019 Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 20 minutes ago, House Rootbreaker said: How will she know he released Jamie? I'm genuinely curious because I think all evidence has been destroyed. If the guards survived they will have to explain why their prisoner is gone. They will tell her Tyrion did so. No matter whether they find Jaime's corpse or not. Tyrion set Jaime free and that will be known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Rootbreaker Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Green Knight said: Tyrion pulled rank and ordered his guards away then went to the tent. When he came back out Jamie was gone and his chains were unlocked. Now I don’t know about any of you but I was in the army for nine years and in Law enforcement for twenty two. Even when there is a war going on you don’t just leave prisoners unguarded. Even if ordered to by a higher ranking person. There is a long chain of command and eventually someone has to answer for whatever goes on. On the show they act like the guards are just told to walk away and then that’s the last anyone ever even thinks about the high value prisoner. It doesn’t work like that. I think it was shocking the Unsullied moved aside at all. Despite Tyrion's rank, they've only ever taken orders from Dany and Grey Worm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, MinscS2 said: I guess that ultimately we will get some sort of Jamie/Aerys parallel between Jon and Daenerys. Daenerys will want Sansa dead for her earlier transgressions/betrayal, possibly trying to get Jon to bring her Sansas head, and this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Daenerys will trust in Jon's sense of honor (and the fact that she has saved his life twice already), but he will finally forsake it and become both Queen- and Kinslayer in one single thrust with Longclaw. I also think that Jon will be pretty pissed at Sansa. She will want him to take the throne and he will tell her to fuck off. (Perhaps not in those words.) If Tyrion know whats good for him, he will stay away from Daenerys. Honestly, at this point, what does he even have to say to her? Greyworm is solidly in team Daenerys until he (or she) dies. I think Daenerys will want to attack Winterfell to get Sansa and that will be the last straw for Jon. Oldtown, Lannisport, all the old seats of power will have to be wiped out in her mind. Winterfell is the biggest traitor of all and Jon's home. Not to mention Sansa is there. She'll want it wiped off the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, House Rootbreaker said: Jamie is nowhere to be found and no one says anything? That's harder to believe. What happens off camera is totally up to the writers and unknown to the viewers. What evidence do you have that you saw on the actual screen that she knows? There is no evidence. All I am saying is that it makes much more sense for Daenerys to figure out Tyrion betrayed her by deceiving the Unsullied and releasing her prisoner than it is for Daenerys to know how exactly Varys came to know the secret of Jon's heritage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Knight Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ice Queen said: I think Daenerys will want to attack Winterfell to get Sansa and that will be the last straw for Jon. Oldtown, Lannisport, all the old seats of power will have to be wiped out in her mind. Winterfell is the biggest traitor of all and Jon's home. Not to mention Sansa is there. She'll want it wiped off the map. I agree with you and think this is where they’re going with it. We’ll be reliving Jaime/Aerys history all over again but It’ll be King Slayer Jon this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dayne Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 31 minutes ago, Winter prince said: All nobles in the 7 kingdoms will be demanded to go to kingslanding to swear fealty to their new queen. Where in Kings Landing? It's destroyed. I think you may be right that she summons the remaining nobility to bend the knee, but I think it will happen at Dragonstone, and Dany will make Dragonstone the new seat of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hedge of Hog Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I will be amazed if jon is pissed at sansa - i hope so...but considering how brain dead he is - he probs won't mention it...just brood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 14, 2019 Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ice Queen said: I think Daenerys will want to attack Winterfell to get Sansa and that will be the last straw for Jon. Yes, I thought about that one, too. Daenerys is very angry about Sansa and their conflict is open. Sansa won't respect her and Daenerys probably intends to "solve" the issue. It is a very interesting question how Jon will react to that inner conflict between "never forget to be a Stark" and his fealty to Daenerys. However, one of the main questions in this new thread is how Jon will feel about Daenery having destroyed King's Landing and murdered so man innocent people including children. He must be appalled. Will he continue to be bound to his fealty or break up with her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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