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hallam

Time to rewatch from the beginning

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12 minutes ago, Bradam said:

Technically she did give him Drogon.  But the poor sap had no idea what to do with Drogon and kept yanking on the chain/rope thing till Drogon got pissed and roasted him.  

But yeah is was a good example of foreshawdowing Dany not being miss goody twoshoes

Danny orders Drogon to roast him, 'drakarys'

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13 minutes ago, hallam said:

Danny orders Drogon to roast him, 'drakarys'

ah guess i forgot that, been a while since i saw that episode.  Didn't she hand him the end of the chain that was wrapped around Drogon's neck, and after he burned said something like "Dragons are no slaves"?  

 

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52 minutes ago, hallam said:

No he is not.

Book Stannis is every bit as much of a bastard as show Stannis and more. He uses two shadow babies, not just one.

If you think book Stannis is anything but a monster, its because you haven't been paying attention. And of course, that is GRRM's point: We glorify 'great men' like Wellington and Napolepon without considering the methods they used to achieve ends which at best were to stop the other.

You think he ordered those shadow babies? Mel is clearly acting on her own. He is distraught by nightmares after Renley being assassinated and Mel is the only person that can soothe him to sleep. She obviously is trying to control him and the chapters with them in it show the constant struggle between these two. Why does she want to control him and want him to be AA so bad, we don't know.

If you think Stannis is just a simple monster and nothing else and the show depicts him accurately, you really need to re read those books. You have missed out on a lot.

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Did a full rewatch prior to S8. I don’t think I can ever rewatch again after this season. Episode 3 by itself basically killed the rewatchability imo. Then 4 and 5 just made it worse and worse.

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Posted (edited)

I honestly stopped reading when the OP bolded out: 'she breaks her word to a slave trader'.

Also no, there is not event decent build up in the show that points to Dany being evil or mad, they literally white washed her character for 6 season straight.

And no in the books there's no clear signs either, as it could still go either way. Dany in the books questions her decisions, that means she has rational thinking and is not an insane person. She could develop a mental disorder later on, but the things she did have good justification behind them.

Its not perfect, as she wants the damn throne, but she wants to save people as well and has successfully done it. While she is not great at governing, she is great at saving people. There is literally no justification to say that the slaves she freed were better off in chains, unless you're pro slavery.

Edited by MagicPen

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3 minutes ago, MagicPen said:

I honestly stopped reading when the OP bolded out: 'she breaks her word to a slave trader'.

Also no, there is not event decent build up in the show that points to Dany being evil or mad, they literally white washed her character for 6 season straight.

And no in the books there's no clear signs either, as it could still go either way. Dany in the books questions her decisions, that means she has rational thinking and is not an insane person. She could develop a mental disorder later on, but the things she did have good justification behind them.

Its not perfect, as she wants the damn throne, but she wants to save people as well and has successfully done it. While she is not great at governing, she is great at saving people. There is literally no justification to say that the slaves she freed were better off in chains, unless your pro slavery.

I think the argument can be made that late in Dance you can see madness possibly creeping in. But you're right, it's not clear cut by any means. I thought the conflict of her wanting to go home (red door) and wanting the Iron Throne could drive her to question everything about her, her motives, why she is doing this, the people she has killed along the way, etc. But I wouldn't call that going mad. Just a conflict of conscious I guess.

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Posted (edited)

Stannis and Danny have a lot in common, both being survivors and both believed they need the throne and that throne belongs to them by right. But I see one important difference.

Stannis was a truly just man. Presented with moral dilemma he’d go by the numbers or choose lesser evil. It’s unfair to call him evil because of that. The tragedy of this character is that sooner or later he’d sacrifice love for the sake of duty. Because he understands duty but ultimately, he cannot grasp what love is.

Danny believes she is above the laws and morality. But she seems to understand the essence of virtue - which is love. Hers is the struggle between being good and effective ruler. She gives to all and all she has and there are no returns only thirst for more. And when there is almost nothing left, she needs to fight and commit atrocities to survive.

The things we do for love...

 

Edited by TwiceBorn

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50 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

You think he ordered those shadow babies? Mel is clearly acting on her own. He is distraught by nightmares after Renley being assassinated and Mel is the only person that can soothe him to sleep. She obviously is trying to control him and the chapters with them in it show the constant struggle between these two. Why does she want to control him and want him to be AA so bad, we don't know.

If you think Stannis is just a simple monster and nothing else and the show depicts him accurately, you really need to re read those books. You have missed out on a lot.

Ah someone who thinks that the only reason someone might disagree with them is ignorance..

Stannis knows Mel's methods, he is just wilfully blind to the costs. As of course are Stannis supporters.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Anthony Pirtle said:

I don't think I'll ever re-watch this show. The last three seasons have had such progressively lackluster writing that it would make watching the first five seasons a lot less entertaining in retrospect. 

This was the outcome I feared the most, but I think these two have somehow managed it. It's like :

 

Why bother putting the puzzle together again when you know it just reveals a giant, steaming pile of dung?

Edited by Chris is my name

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Chris is my name said:

This was the outcome I feared the most, but I think these two have somehow managed it. It's like lAJ9CG.gif

Why bother putting the puzzle together again when you know it just reveals a giant, steaming pile of dung?

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. I don't hate seasons 5-7, but both professional critics and fans haven't received them quite as well. However, the most significant dip in quality has been right here at the end (where it hurts the most), with every single episode of Season 8 receiving a lower percentage of positive reviews than the one that preceded it, according to Rotten Tomatoes. The most recent one got a 47%! That's amazing for a show that had been averaging above 90%, and considering the consistent quality of production and performances, it's all down to the writing. 

Edited by Anthony Pirtle

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Anthony Pirtle said:

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. I don't hate seasons 5-7, but both professional critics and fans haven't received them quite as well. However, the most significant dip in quality has been right here at the end (where it hurts the most)

I am pretty much in the same boat, although I feel like S7 is just as much a mess as this one; it just wasn't as apparent because there was still the illusion of,"there's still time for it to make sense." But I think that episodes 61-73 are ultimately going to be viewed as a complete waste of screen time.

I am just going to have to take S1-6 as the TV adaptation and cross my fingers that GRRM can actually finishes this story.

But that is why I am crossing my fingers and not holding my breath. ;)

Edited by Chris is my name

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1 hour ago, Chris is my name said:

 

I pretty much turn off when anyone who hasn't written the most successful TV series in history accuses the people who did of 'bad writing'.

What is good writing changes over time. Traditional TV hands meaning to viewers on a plate. GoT does not it is constantly luring the viewers into a set of expectations and then dashing them. But the outcomes are always logical and have historical parallels.

The fact that you can't figure out why Danny snapped doesn't mean that it is bad writing. It just means that the work is more complicated than you seem able to cope with. The executions of the Tarlys and Varys showed us what she is.

This is exactly what George W. Bush did to Baghdad in his 'Shock and Awe' attack. His invasion caused between half a million and a million deaths and there are still people who will say what such a very fine person he is.

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2 minutes ago, hallam said:

The fact that you can't figure out why Danny snapped doesn't mean that it is bad writing. It just means that the work is more complicated than you seem able to cope with. The executions of the Tarlys and Varys showed us what she is.

Fortunately I am laughing too hard to be truly insulted.

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2 hours ago, hallam said:

Ah someone who thinks that the only reason someone might disagree with them is ignorance..

Stannis knows Mel's methods, he is just wilfully blind to the costs. As of course are Stannis supporters.

To quote you, "If you think book Stannis is anything but a monster, its because you haven't been paying attention."

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3 hours ago, btfu806 said:

To quote you, "If you think book Stannis is anything but a monster, its because you haven't been paying attention."

Well ignoring that he used blood magic in his attempt to get the throne doess suggest not paying attention.

Having established that he used despicable methods, I don't see how you can really explain them away. 

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6 hours ago, Chris is my name said:

 

See I watched the video, I wont comment on the Dany part but the part where he mentions how great Theons arc was and how disappointing Jaimes'swas.

But I feel he and some people are missing the reasons for this...

Theon was a good person, that got lost (rightly so) and did a few bad things, but ultimately made the right choices in the end = deserved a nicely wrapped up story.

Jaime was lets just say a Dick, that did a few good things, but turned back into a bit of a dick by the end = Didn't deserve a nicely wrapped up story.

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45 minutes ago, hallam said:

Well ignoring that he used blood magic in his attempt to get the throne doess suggest not paying attention.

Having established that he used despicable methods, I don't see how you can really explain them away. 

I already explained and you dismissed it as "not paying attention" point out in the books where he knows of the blood magic being used.

He literally never states in the books to use blood magic to get him the throne.

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