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Discussing Sansa - The Last One: Queen In The North!!!

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I have had 3 different conceptions of Sansa:

1. Up until the point Ned was imprisoned: I wouldn't say I hated her, because she was just a naive girl, but I was not fond of her.

2. From the point Ned was imprisoned until she finally returned to Winterfell: she was one of my favorite characters.

3. Starting from nearly as soon as she got back to Winterfell: I have just seen nothing likable about her. She is conniving, grasping, and rarely even pleasant to people around her. The last part is particularly odd, because she was primarily trained to be charming and has shown that training off throughout most of the story. 

As is true of so much of the "new stuff" in the show, I just don't get where "Part 3" Sansa comes from, and instead I see her as one of the numerous character arcs that got perverted. Part 2, OTOH, seemed to evolve naturally from Part 1.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Dragons 7th Eye said:

Like I already said, you are free to go on making your own rules in your head and, it is quite apparent that you are not going to stop any time soon so, do carry on. That is not, however, at all how it works in the universe GRRM created. Lord of Winterfell is the Lord of the North - Sansa was the Lady of Winterfell. You can fabricate as much as you want, and you are doing that more than anything else. This time you are trying to make it about the castle named Winterfell after falling flat on so many arguments already. It really is not very complicated and it is all laid out for those willing to go look for the background instead of just making stuff up as they go, to support their argument. I am quite done here.

So, are you saying that, after Jon was made King of the North, when he gave Sansa the title of Lady of Winterfell, he stopped being King of the North?

Because Edmure swore loyalty to the KING OF THE NORTH, not to the LORD OF WINTERFELL. The difference may seem irrelevant to you, but it isn't.

During the council Sansa wasn't queen of the North. Maybe Jon was still considered King of the North, since Dany was no longer around, but the fact is, Sansa didn't become queen until after seceding and being crowned in the North.

Edmure may have seen himself as vassal to Jon, but not to Sansa.

2 hours ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

3. Starting from nearly as soon as she got back to Winterfell: I have just seen nothing likable about her. She is conniving, grasping, and rarely even pleasant to people around her. The last part is particularly odd, because she was primarily trained to be charming and has shown that training off throughout most of the story. 

As is true of so much of the "new stuff" in the show, I just don't get where "Part 3" Sansa comes from, and instead I see her as one of the numerous character arcs that got perverted. Part 2, OTOH, seemed to evolve naturally from Part 1.

And I would add: While she is supposed to have grown smart and to have become a player, she is awful at it... unlike Varys and Littlefinger, who pulled strings behind everybody's back, she is openly confrontative. She doesn't conspires, she doesn't makes intelligent plans, she just whines and tell everybody they are wrong...

I will say it again: What is the point of making an enemy from the woman with the huge army and the two dragons who can either destroy you or save you? What kind of plan does she offer to Jon and Tyrion when she tell them to stop following Dany?

Yeah, she called the Valelords... that wasn't a stroke of genius, what else could she try to help Jon? she resorted to the only tool she had. Period.

As for killing Littlefinger, that was his own mistake... he was clumsy, and he died for it... Once Littlefinger told Arya to kill Sansa, Sansa's only logical options were: To have Arya kill him in secret, or to denounce him openly and execute him in public. That's not being clever, that's doing the only thing you can do...

Edited by Ser Lepus

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14 hours ago, Dragons 7th Eye said:

Like I already said, you are free to go on making your own rules in your head and, it is quite apparent that you are not going to stop any time soon so, do carry on. That is not, however, at all how it works in the universe GRRM created. Lord of Winterfell is the Lord of the North - Sansa was the Lady of Winterfell. You can fabricate as much as you want, and you are doing that more than anything else. This time you are trying to make it about the castle named Winterfell after falling flat on so many arguments already. It really is not very complicated and it is all laid out for those willing to go look for the background instead of just making stuff up as they go, to support their argument. I am quite done here.

That isnt how this works either. Being the Lord of a Castle doesnt make you the Lord of that region/kingdom. 

For example. 

Quote

Emmon: Ser Jaime, your lord father's faith in me was well placed, you shall see. I mean to be firm but fair with my new vassals. Blackwood and Bracken, Jason Mallister, Vanceand Piper, they shall learn that they have a just overlord in Emmon Frey. My father as well, yes. He is the Lord of the Crossing, but I am the Lord of Riverrun. A son has a duty to obey his father, true, but a bannerman must obey his overlord.
Jaime: You are not his overlord, ser. Read your parchment. You were granted Riverrun with its lands and incomes, no more. Petyr Baelish is the Lord Paramount of the Trident. Riverrun will be subject to the rule of Harrenhal.

If Jon is King, or if everyone  swears fealty to him, it doesnt matter where his seat is. he is still their lord. Even seatless, he is still above Sansa. 

Long story short, you swear fealty to the linage, not the building they rule. 

 

 

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On 5/21/2019 at 9:09 PM, Hodor's Dragon said:

I have had 3 different conceptions of Sansa:

1. Up until the point Ned was imprisoned: I wouldn't say I hated her, because she was just a naive girl, but I was not fond of her.

2. From the point Ned was imprisoned until she finally returned to Winterfell: she was one of my favorite characters.

3. Starting from nearly as soon as she got back to Winterfell: I have just seen nothing likable about her. She is conniving, grasping, and rarely even pleasant to people around her. The last part is particularly odd, because she was primarily trained to be charming and has shown that training off throughout most of the story. 

As is true of so much of the "new stuff" in the show, I just don't get where "Part 3" Sansa comes from, and instead I see her as one of the numerous character arcs that got perverted. Part 2, OTOH, seemed to evolve naturally from Part 1.

True, since 3: Sansa has just been ungrateful, arrogant,c*nt.

She betrayed Danerys just because she didn't like her a moment after she sacrificed half her forces to defeat a NK.

I really don't understand all the : awww she became a true leader..bs..bs.etc

She became LF light only without refinement.

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Sansa was always a climber.  She was just very good at jumping from ladder to ladder if the one she was on failed.  I didn't like Sansa as she was portrayed - openly confrontational, overly confident in herself, and in the end willing to run to whoever she needed for help.   But... that was the character.  Personally I'm perplexed by the great love for her.  

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On 5/21/2019 at 9:09 PM, Hodor's Dragon said:

3. Starting from nearly as soon as she got back to Winterfell: I have just seen nothing likable about her. She is conniving, grasping, and rarely even pleasant to people around her. The last part is particularly odd, because she was primarily trained to be charming and has shown that training off throughout most of the story.

Because to D&D empowered women are bitchy. And catty with each other. Empowered women can't be nice. Name one nice empowered woman on this show. Only Margery comes to mind and it was all fake with her. Even Brienne, who is generally nice-ish, treated Pod like shit for most of the show's run.

23 hours ago, Ser Lepus said:

So, are you saying that, after Jon was made King of the North, when he gave Sansa the title of Lady of Winterfell, he stopped being King of the North?

During the council Sansa wasn't queen of the North. Maybe Jon was still considered King of the North, since Dany was no longer around, but the fact is, Sansa didn't become queen until after seceding and being crowned in the North.

Jon didn't make her Lady of Winterfell. It was her goddamn birthright. Not to mention she was the widow of the former Lord of Winterfell. So she was the Lady twice over.

Sansa still considered Jon the KitN. Did no one pay attention to the Starks talking to Jon later on? Sansa literally said 'they lost their King'. Sansa came South with an army to free Jon, said the North will be independent and then mentioned the North having lost their King. If there had been no punishment for Jon, seems like Sansa would have been fine with Jon being KitN because she literally said that.

43 minutes ago, Giskard Reventlov said:

She betrayed Danerys just because she didn't like her a moment after she sacrificed half her forces to defeat a NK.

Considering Team Dany brought the wall down, least she can do is clean up the mess her team made. It's not really a sacrifice when you are the cause for an undead army marching across the land.

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Just now, Mystical said:

 

Considering Team Dany brought the wall down, least she can do is clean up the mess her team made. It's not really a sacrifice when you are the cause for an undead army marching across the land.

Yes, that was Danny destroying the wall in blue mask.

Also it wouldn't happen if that dummy Jon Snow...of the Starks was not in trouble...again

So, when someone saves your ass its polite to say thanks at least, not stab him in the back.

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1 minute ago, Giskard Reventlov said:

Yes, that was Danny destroying the wall in blue mask.

Also it wouldn't happen if that dummy Jon Snow...of the Starks was not in trouble...again

So, when someone saves your ass its polite to say thanks at least, not stab him in the back.

It was Tyrion's plan. He is HER hand. SHE gave the ok. She is the Queen after all. She allowed Jon to go which was royally stupid because if he was still the King of the North then. Anything happens to him, that would have fallen on her. If she had never listened to Tyrion, ever, the wall wouldn't have fallen and she never would have gone crazy and taken KL in early S7.

So yes, her fault the wall came down as she was the final authority. Look I get it, your girl was done dirty by the writers (and I agree). But that doesn't mean it's everyone else's fault.

PS: Sansa literally said 'I should have thanked you the moment you showed up.'. But you can ignore that I guess because she didn't fall on her feet and kissed your girl's shoes.

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6 minutes ago, Mystical said:

It was Tyrion's plan. He is HER hand. SHE gave the ok. She is the Queen after all. She allowed Jon to go which was royally stupid because if he was still the King of the North then. Anything happens to him, that would have fallen on her. If she had never listened to Tyrion, ever, the wall wouldn't have fallen and she never would have gone crazy and taken KL in early S7.

So yes, her fault the wall came down as she was the final authority. Look I get it, your girl was done dirty by the writers (and I agree). But that doesn't mean it's everyone else's fault.

PS: Sansa literally said 'I should have thanked you the moment you showed up.'. But you can ignore that I guess because she didn't fall on her feet and kissed your girl's shoes.

Well, it wasn't really anybody's fault. I guess if it were court and the Nights Watch was suing for damages to replace the wall she might be the one that gets hit on a multiple-defendant verdict form, but in reality what happened was wildly unpredictable, it was the result of a "justifiable"* military expedition, and nobody involved acted wrongfully, maliciously, or even carelessly.**

*"Justifiable" doesn't mean it wasn't stupid, it means that everybody agreed to it beforehand and even the viewers were somehow expected to just buy into it as a smart plan. Dany didn't dictate either the plan or its tactics.

**See above. Considering it was a stupid plan, it was carried out appropriately, as a commando strike, and everybody agreed to the tactical plan. 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Mystical said:

It was Tyrion's plan. He is HER hand. SHE gave the ok. She is the Queen after all. She allowed Jon to go which was royally stupid because if he was still the King of the North then. Anything happens to him, that would have fallen on her. If she had never listened to Tyrion, ever, the wall wouldn't have fallen and she never would have gone crazy and taken KL in early S7.

So yes, her fault the wall came down as she was the final authority. Look I get it, your girl was done dirty by the writers (and I agree). But that doesn't mean it's everyone else's fault.

PS: Sansa literally said 'I should have thanked you the moment you showed up.'. But you can ignore that I guess because she didn't fall on her feet and kissed your girl's shoes.

No she didn't and she should have.

Lol, yeah, its her fault she came to help incompetent Starks, both Jon and Sansa.

Edit; So, she sent Jon to bring a zombie and went to  the wall because they begged her to help them..ergo...its Jon&Sansa fault wall came down.

Instead of kissing her shoes she lied to her brother just to stab Daenerys  in the back and all of that because Sansa didn't like her very much. 

Pretty c*nty way to thank someone for saving your life.

Edited by Giskard Reventlov

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41 minutes ago, Mystical said:

It was Tyrion's plan. He is HER hand. SHE gave the ok. She is the Queen after all. She allowed Jon to go which was royally stupid because if he was still the King of the North then. Anything happens to him, that would have fallen on her. If she had never listened to Tyrion, ever, the wall wouldn't have fallen and she never would have gone crazy and taken KL in early S7.

So yes, her fault the wall came down as she was the final authority. Look I get it, your girl was done dirty by the writers (and I agree). But that doesn't mean it's everyone else's fault.

PS: Sansa literally said 'I should have thanked you the moment you showed up.'. But you can ignore that I guess because she didn't fall on her feet and kissed your girl's shoes.

Actually I think she didn't give him permission to leave and he went:

"With respect your grace, I don't need your permission...I am a King...Now I am asking you to trust in a stranger because that's our best chance"

 

Why is it always Dany to be blamed?

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mystical said:

Jon didn't make her Lady of Winterfell. It was her goddamn birthright. Not to mention she was the widow of the former Lord of Winterfell. So she was the Lady twice over.

Sansa comes after Bran and Rickon in the line of succession, both of which were still alive at the beginning of the Battle of the Bastards. And if Jon is considered legitimized, he comes before her too.

Both Jon and Bran could have taken the title, but both of them let her have it...

As for Sansa being the widow of Ramsay Bolton, nobody cares about that. Nobody thinks Ramsay was the true lord of Winterfell...

2 hours ago, Mystical said:

Sansa still considered Jon the KitN. Did no one pay attention to the Starks talking to Jon later on? Sansa literally said 'they lost their King'. Sansa came South with an army to free Jon, said the North will be independent and then mentioned the North having lost their King. If there had been no punishment for Jon, seems like Sansa would have been fine with Jon being KitN because she literally said that.

If so, then Jon, not Sansa, is Edmure's liege. Edmure swore loyalty to the King of the North, that is, Jon (that is assuming that Edmure still consider himself bound to the North after Robb's defeat and Jon bending the knee to Dany...) not to the lord or lady of Winterfell.

So Sansa has no business telling Edmure what to do...

And if Jon is still King of the North, Sansa has no say about the North being independent or not. It is Jon's call, or his heir Bran's call... But Bran chose not to claim his rights and let Sansa have the North, because he didn't want another war...

And if Sansa (and Bran) did want Jon to be free and to become King of the North, they could just pretend to exile him to the Wall and reinstate him as KotN as soon as the Unsullied are out the way...

 

Edited by Ser Lepus

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In a discussion at home, we got to the point that for some reason d&d think scheming is intelligence and cowardice is right there too. 

Sansa is a schemer. Her mother taugt her to use courtesy as a mask for her thoughts, but Lf and Cersei taught her the climb.

It is easy to look at some of her moves as sketchy, but that's what it takes to win in GoT. 

The North became her shield against being used and harmed, so uf she had to turn the good lords of the Northern houses into pliable sheep?

She said it herself. Men are stupid. Easily manipulated. 

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Posted (edited)
On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 2:57 PM, Dragonslack said:
On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 3:14 PM, Risto said:

Unless you can find the way to blame it on Sansa :D 

Ask and you shall receive, ez. The bitch bitched about the troops not being ready to march, so she went alone by sea and got ambushed and lost a dragon and a handmaiden. Obviously she did not see urine because she was tilted because of Sansa passive aggressiveness.

Honestly, seriously there is no plot, stop arguing needlessly about angel´s junk.

"Killed half million" pleze if there was another episode 9/10 of that would still be alive.

Rhaegal was very injured (Dany wasn't sure he could fly and when he did it was awkward) and Dany flew him into danger and war because she was impatient. Jon doesn't ride Rhaegal south because he's too injured. If Dany is so weak that she could get distracted by Sansa from a fleet of ships then she's not even remotely qualified to be queen. Reminds me of someone...

 

 

I would argue that it might well be the case that Dany snapped because she realized her own impatience resulted in the deaths of Rhaegal, Missendei, and sparked the plot against her.

The battle was won extraordinarily quickly and easily and the bells meant that the rush and the consequences of the rush didn't have to happen. 

Edited by Lollygag

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14 hours ago, Nightwish said:

Actually I think she didn't give him permission to leave and he went:

"With respect your grace, I don't need your permission...I am a King...Now I am asking you to trust in a stranger because that's our best chance"

How was Jon going to leave? Of course he needs her permission. Did you forget that Jon had been under house arrest since he got to Dragonstone and Dany took away his weapons and ship? He had no way of leaving unless she allowed it. Was he going to swim to the wall?

14 hours ago, Nightwish said:

Why is it always Dany to be blamed?

Why is Sansa always blamed for the decisions of others? And I blame Dany and Tyrion equally, just for the record. Tyrion's divided loyalties put in motion a sequence of events that resulted in mass casualties and it started in S7. And I blame Bran/3ER way more than either Dany or Tyrion. The real Little Finger in the last 2 Seasons was Bran/3ER.

14 hours ago, Ser Lepus said:

Sansa comes after Bran and Rickon in the line of succession, both of which were still alive at the beginning of the Battle of the Bastards. And if Jon is considered legitimized, he comes before her too.

Jon, even if legitimate, doesn't come before Sansa. Do you even know the rules of succession? The male line comes before the female line. Jon only gets Winterfell if all of Ned's children are dead. Look it up. Sansa is aware of those rules, hence the first thing she tells Bran is that he is Lord of Winterfell. He abdicated so Sansa was next in line.

14 hours ago, Ser Lepus said:

As for Sansa being the widow of Ramsay Bolton, nobody cares about that. Nobody thinks Ramsay was the true lord of Winterfell...

Plenty of people cared in S6. Neither Sansa nor Jon could get the Northern houses to join them because the Boltons in the show were actually good liege lords. They drove the Ironborn out of the North and helped them get back their castles and lands. So why wouldn't they see Roose and Ramsey as the true Lord?

14 hours ago, Ser Lepus said:

If so, then Jon, not Sansa, is Edmure's liege. Edmure swore loyalty to the King of the North, that is, Jon (that is assuming that Edmure still consider himself bound to the North after Robb's defeat and Jon bending the knee to Dany...) not to the lord or lady of Winterfell.

I'm sorry but you really don't know how it works, do you? King Robb died, his reign ended with him and he had no successors. In the books there is a will that makes Jon Robb's heir, so if Jon becomes King then Edmure is bound to Jon. The will is not in the show, Robb had no heirs in the show. When the North voted for Jon to be King, that started a new line of succession and Jon was only made King by the North. Edmure was in prison so no way for him to swear fealty to the new King.

14 hours ago, Ser Lepus said:

And if Jon is still King of the North, Sansa has no say about the North being independent or not. It is Jon's call, or his heir Bran's call... But Bran chose not to claim his rights and let Sansa have the North, because he didn't want another war...

He is no longer KitN (bend the knee to Dany) but Sansa would have supported him as such again should he not get any punishment. Bran is not his heir because Bran is neither Jon's child nor did Jon make a will that proclaimed Bran his heir. And Sansa was the figurehead in the North in both S7 (Jon made her Regent) and in S8 they seemed to have kept that going probably because all the action took place in WF.

14 hours ago, Ser Lepus said:

And if Sansa (and Bran) did want Jon to be free and to become King of the North, they could just pretend to exile him to the Wall and reinstate him as KotN as soon as the Unsullied are out the way...

It wasn't just the Unsullied. Since you apparently didn't pay attention, Yara wanted his head too. So probably did the Prince of Dorne and anyone else that had sworn themselves to Dany. The Unsullied were only a part of the problem.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

How was Jon going to leave? Of course he needs her permission. Did you forget that Jon had been under house arrest since he got to Dragonstone and Dany took away his weapons and ship? He had no way of leaving unless she allowed it. Was he going to swim to the wall?

You missed the point according to your previous sayings: 

Quote

She is the Queen after all. She allowed Jon to go which was royally stupid because if he was still the King of the North then. 

and actually Jon replies to you:

Quote

 

"With respect your grace, I don't need your permission...I am a King...Now I am asking you to trust in a stranger because that's our best chance"

 

So he insisted in going despite the fact that she tried to stop him. She made her effort. What else do you suggest that she would do? Put him in a dungeon and chain him for the rest of his life?

 

Edited by Nightwish

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17 hours ago, Giskard Reventlov said:

True, since 3: Sansa has just been ungrateful, arrogant,c*nt.

She betrayed Danerys just because she didn't like her a moment after she sacrificed half her forces to defeat a NK.

I really don't understand all the : awww she became a true leader..bs..bs.etc

She became LF light only without refinement.

You don't need to understand why different people like different characters and defend them against all odds and logic too sometimes. Some choose to defend LF junior and some choose to defend Hitler with dragons...all this drama is about LF junior winning in the end and Hitler with dragons loosing. 

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13 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Rhaegal was very injured (Dany wasn't sure he could fly and when he did it was awkward) and Dany flew him into danger and war because she was impatient. Jon doesn't ride Rhaegal south because he's too injured. If Dany is so weak that she could get distracted by Sansa from a fleet of ships then she's not even remotely qualified to be queen. Reminds me of someone...

 

 

I would argue that it might well be the case that Dany snapped because she realized her own impatience resulted in the deaths of Rhaegal, Missendei, and sparked the plot against her.

The battle was won extraordinarily quickly and easily and the bells meant that the rush and the consequences of the rush didn't have to happen. 

Showrunners stated someone tipped Euron and Cersei off to Daenery's travel plans which allowed them to set up the ambush at Dragonstone. It's possible it was Varys except he doesn't know about Jon at that point. Could just be the random spies that Qyburn was employing that told him the Wall fell... or it could have been someone that had nothing to lose and everything to gain if both Daenerys and Jon end up dead in the South.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

...Do you even know the rules of succession?...

...I'm sorry but you really don't know how it works, do you?...

...Since you apparently didn't pay attention...

I have noticed that you seem unable to support your arguments without resorting to personal attacks. That never works, so you should stop doing it. You will never win an argument by repeatedly insisting that you know far more than the rest...

By the way, I was discussing the westerosi laws of succession in this forum seven years before you first registered here...

 

On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

Jon, even if legitimate, doesn't come before Sansa. Do you even know the rules of succession? The male line comes before the female line. Jon only gets Winterfell if all of Ned's children are dead. Look it up. Sansa is aware of those rules, hence the first thing she tells Bran is that he is Lord of Winterfell. He abdicated so Sansa was next in line.

Except nobody knows that Jon isn't Ned's son. Not even Sansa knew until three episodes ago. Not even Jon knew until shortly before the battle against the Night King in Winterfell... And Edmure certainly doesn't know even now...

And I am sure you know that... It was treated as kind of a big deal, you know...

As far as everybody knew, Jon was both Ned's and Robb's heir, both to Winterfell and to the crown of the KotN.

On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

Plenty of people cared in S6. Neither Sansa nor Jon could get the Northern houses to join them because the Boltons in the show were actually good liege lords. They drove the Ironborn out of the North and helped them get back their castles and lands. So why wouldn't they see Roose and Ramsey as the true Lord?

And these people who liked the Boltons so much care that Sansa is Ramsay's widow, but not that she killed him? And it's not as if she has been secretive about it, she has been saying it out loud in a hall full of people...

As you said yourself, they didn't want to follow Sansa...

On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

I'm sorry but you really don't know how it works, do you? King Robb died, his reign ended with him and he had no successors. In the books there is a will that makes Jon Robb's heir, so if Jon becomes King then Edmure is bound to Jon. The will is not in the show, Robb had no heirs in the show. When the North voted for Jon to be King, that started a new line of succession and Jon was only made King by the North. Edmure was in prison so no way for him to swear fealty to the new King.

These people chose as king the man they believed to be Robb's brother. Nobody knew that he wasn't Ned's son at that point, and they still don't know. 

The reason they chose Jon as KotN is because, to their eyes, he was Robb's heir.

And yeah, Edmure can choose to ignore Jon, the same way people in the council ignored Gendry's claim (as a legitimized bastard of king Robert), the same way they ignored Dany's claim for years, the same way Edmure, Robb, Renly, Mace Tyrell and the Valelords ignored Joffrey's claim even before knowing he was a bastard...

But it would make no sense for Edmure to ignore Jon's claim and to follow Sansa instead, when Sansa herself as acknowledged Jon as the KotN... Why would he do that? In what way would that benefit either Edmure or the Riverlands? And if Edmure chose to keep being loyal to the KotN out of honor and loyalty... why would he reject Jon?

And don't say "family"; Sansa treats him like shit... why would he care that she is family?

On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

Edmure was in prison so no way for him to swear fealty to the new King.

No way for him to swear fealty to Sansa, either... if he doesn't consider Jon his king, why would he consider Sansa his liege...?

You can't have it both ways: Either his bond of fealty went extinct when Robb died, or it didn't. If his fealty to the Starks went extinct when Robb died, then he isn't a vassal to Sansa either.

And don't say "Jon isn't Robb's true brother..." Edmure doesn't know that. As far as he knows, Jon is Robb's brother, and his heir.

On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

He is no longer KitN (bend the knee to Dany)

If Edmure thinks so, he can consider his bond of fealty extinct, but, why would he consider himself a vassal to Sansa?

On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

Bran is not his heir because Bran is neither Jon's child nor did Jon make a will that proclaimed Bran his heir.

As far as everybody knows, Bran is Jon's brother. Siblings are heirs when there isn't a child (check GRRM's Q&A) and as you said yourself, brothers go before sisters in the succession line everywhere save in Dorne. Bran goes before Sansa.

And again don't say "Bran isn't Jon's true brother..." nobody knows that..

On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

It wasn't just the Unsullied. Since you apparently didn't pay attention, Yara wanted his head too.

Yeah, Yara who so bravely confronted the Starks during the council... I am sure she would gladly die to ensure that Jon receives his punishment... :rolleyes:

On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

So probably did the Prince of Dorne and anyone else that had sworn themselves to Dany. The Unsullied were only a part of the problem.

You mean, that prince of Dorne we know nothing about? The guy who didn't say a word against Jon during the council...?

And anyways, I am sure that, after he saw the ruins of KL, he probably felt grateful Daenerys was dead...

 

Edited by Ser Lepus

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