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Discussing Sansa - The Last One: Queen In The North!!!

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Are people really arguing whether or not Sansa had any legal authority to tell Edmure to sit down?  Because from what I saw Edmure was making an ass of himself and wasting everyone's time and only Sansa had the balls to tell him to shut up and sit down.

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6 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Are people really arguing whether or not Sansa had any legal authority to tell Edmure to sit down?  Because from what I saw Edmure was making an ass of himself and wasting everyone's time and only Sansa had the balls to tell him to shut up and sit down.

Edmure made a better case for himself as king than St. Tyrion did for the Branbot.

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6 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Are people really arguing whether or not Sansa had any legal authority to tell Edmure to sit down?

Hopefully not. This is not about technicalities but a about a snap comment.

6 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Because from what I saw Edmure was making an ass of himself and wasting everyone's time and only Sansa had the balls to tell him to shut up and sit down.

This! Exactly that's how I see it, too.

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1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

Are people really arguing whether or not Sansa had any legal authority to tell Edmure to sit down?  Because from what I saw Edmure was making an ass of himself and wasting everyone's time and only Sansa had the balls to tell him to shut up and sit down.

As much as I support Sansa, it would have made more sense if even more people stepped forward and gave speeches about why they were best fit. That meeting should have gone on for days in my opinion... I understand they were in a rush to save Jon and Tyrion, though. Perhaps they could have chosen an "intermediate king", then continued the discussion later, when the prisoners were free and everything calmed down.

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Just now, Vanadis said:

As much as I support Sansa, it would have made more sense if even more people stepped forward and gave speeches about why they were best fit.

No, not really. It's pitiful to put you own name forward in such a setting.

But I agree it would have been nice if there had been other suggestions, turned down. 

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4 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

No, not really. It's pitiful to put you own name forward in such a setting.

But I agree it would have been nice if there had been other suggestions, turned down. 

Tell that to politicians who run campaigns for various seats of power...

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2 minutes ago, Vanadis said:

Tell that to politicians who run campaigns for various seats of power...

Yeah, maybe it is an American thing to do. It's not an European, though, quite to the contrary, and it certainly is not a medieval thing in such councils.

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On 5/21/2019 at 3:09 PM, Hodor's Dragon said:

3. Starting from nearly as soon as she got back to Winterfell: I have just seen nothing likable about her. She is conniving, grasping, and rarely even pleasant to people around her. The last part is particularly odd, because she was primarily trained to be charming and has shown that training off throughout most of the story.

Yep! Sansa is nothing if not courteous. However, once she got to some place she no longer feared being dry gulched, attack of the crazy red-headed woman! Seriously, I cannot imagine that, after all the setup that GRRM has gone through with her character development that Sansa will in any way, shape or form turn out like Sansa on the Tv series. The worst of it all, in my opinion, was how she basically threw Jon under the bus. In fact, her doing so was worse in many ways than Bran's since I think the latter is basically an Old God being filtered through Brynden Rivers/Bloodraven.

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13 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Yeah, maybe it is an American thing to do. It's not an European, though, quite to the contrary, and it certainly is not a medieval thing in such councils.

You should read up on the imperial elections held in the HRE.

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2 minutes ago, TheNecromancerofMirkwood said:

The worst of it all, in my opinion, was how she basically threw Jon under the bus.

Ha-ha, under the bus... well, she broke her oath, but for the better. She sacrificed Daenerys, not Jon. I regard it as immoral and wrong, but she did not really drop Jon.

3 minutes ago, TheNecromancerofMirkwood said:

will in any way, shape or form turn out like Sansa on the Tv series

Well, I expect her to mature, toughen and turn to smart and ruthless, too. Maybe written smarter than in the show. But she learned the game from Littlefinger and this will be the same in the books, I suppose.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Yeah, maybe it is an American thing to do. It's not an European, though, quite to the contrary, and it certainly is not a medieval thing in such councils.

Westeros isn't America or Europe, although it's loosely patterned on Western Europe/England. 

But we've seen one other election I can recall, the one for the Night's Watch. It was quite political, with factions and yes, speeches by the candidates, even though it was for a position of far, far, far less importance. The way this went down with ONE person--a prisoner, no less!--proposing ONE name (that doesn't really make any sense) and everybody just going along? Hogwash.

Edited by Hodor's Dragon

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6 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Yeah, maybe it is an American thing to do. It's not an European, though, quite to the contrary, and it certainly is not a medieval thing in such councils.

Oh, European politicians have meetings, and elections, and they run campaigns too.

And at this point, the throne was up for grabs. For the first time ever. Before this, it had been either inherited, or taken by force. Or given to whoever happened to be closest to it after a show of force, as happened to Cersei. But now - for the first time in their lifetimes, everyone seems to agree that it is a good idea to elect a king. Of course many more of the lords would have been interested in stepping forward and giving a speech about why they were the best candidate, it's the opportunity of a lifetime. They wouldn't just have been satisfied only with Tyrion's opinion about who the best person would be. These are the nobility. They've been trained since kids not only in how to fight, but in how to write letters, how to converse, how to manipulate each other... Just like Sansa, when she saw an opening to claim the North's independence, the rest of the lords should either have gone for the (no longer in existence) iron throne, or claimed independence too, or they should at least have wanted to hear what the other lords seeking power had to say before voting for Bran...


 

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Posted (edited)

Yeah I give this new system of theirs about 10 years or so after the dust settles before some ambitious Lord or Lords decide that maybe the kid in the wheelchair wasn't the best choice to rule Westeros after all and then try to seize the throne for themselves.

Edited by El Guapo

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1 minute ago, Vanadis said:

Just like Sansa, when she saw an opening to claim the North's independence, the rest of the lords should either have gone for the (no longer in existence) iron throne, or claimed independence too, or they should at least have wanted to hear what the other lords seeking power had to say before voting for Bran...

Well, yes, the council is too small, they should have invited all relevant houses and not just this small group. Of course there should have been more discussion and more candidates.

On the other hand, from the people actually there and shown, who should have done so? Sweetrobin surely not, Rhoyce was just a vassal house and is lower than Sweetrobin anyway. Gendry is not king material and happe to be lord now. Edmure is a laughing figure. Sana could have had own interests. Dorne is happy with being Dorne, I assume. So, not many candidates there. There should have been some more.

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Just now, El Guapo said:

kid in the wheelchair wasn't the best choice to rule Westeros

Well, he can settle all conflicts by knowing what really happened. What a great judge.

He might not possible conspiracies early on by greensight, too.

He might actually be a good king, free of most human emotions as it seems.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Vanadis said:

Just like Sansa, when she saw an opening to claim the North's independence, the rest of the lords should either have gone for the (no longer in existence) iron throne, or claimed independence too, or they should at least have wanted to hear what the other lords seeking power had to say before voting for Bran...


 

This is especially true for the Iron Islands where Yara had already secured their independence  from Queen Daenerys but now suddenly she wants to be ruled again but this time by a Stark King?  Makes no sense.  Nor does it makes sense for Dorne either who have always been extremely independence minded. And why wouldn't the Vale decide to join up with the North giving that Lord Royce has essentially  been Sansa's top advisor for the last two season?

Edited by El Guapo

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2 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

This is especially true for the Iron Islands where Yara had already secured their independence  from Queen Daenerys but now suddenly she wants to be ruled again but this time by a Stark King?  Makes no sense.  Nor does it makes sense for Dorne either who have always been extremely independence minded. And why wouldn't the Vale decide to join up with the North giving that Lord Royce has essentially  been Sansa's top advisor for the last two season?

Unfortunately, good questions.

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43 minutes ago, Vanadis said:

Tell that to politicians who run campaigns for various seats of power...

Politicians are not addressing their peers though. However... Politicians competing among themselves day for the freshly vacated party leadership seat would no doubts try to first read the room by having other people campaign on their behalf before putting themselves forward ;)

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A different way to reach this ending:

- Jon presses his claim when he sees what Dany has done
- Jon has Dany arrested (Drogon is intelligent so it should be fine...)
- Jon gives the North its independence with Sansa as queen and names Bran his heir
- Jon abdicates

:rofl:

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